I agree that this country is being driven towards slavery, but it is not too high taxes which is to blame.[/quote] You are right. It is the tax on income. [/quote] Right, too low income tax is part of the problem. I don't believe you could be more mistaken. The people funding welfare programs certainly have more choice than the pyramid builders did. They are not being forced to labor, they do not have to work if they don't want to, and they are not only free to leave, but they have more than adequate means to do so and be successful on the other end. If someone pays you to clean that which is already clean, it does not mean that you were forced to do it. Your absolutist statements are ridiculous. That is just more ridiculousness. The slaves did not work for themselves, nor did they have the option to quite their work. Seriously, you're so far from the actuality, you're like anti-truth. That may be true, but then again absurdity is far from truth. That series of statements is ridiculous for many reasons, but I'll just point out that there is not socialism in the U.S. You know, there is a reason they are called robber barons. They may have hid their activities well for the past few years, but people are beginning to see them for what they are. So everyone is a parasite, is that what you're saying? Well that may be true, but think of a tick that is hiding out somewhere in a log. It may have the potential to do harm to some other organism, but as long as its just hiding out in that log, it is no harm to anyone. Certainly, the worse type of parasite is that which has already latched on to someone's arm and gorged itself with blood. You can argue that everyone in society is latched on to each-other, but who is it that is becoming gorged with blood? It sure ain't the poor, I'll tell you that much. Purchasing a ticket, requires that they actually have money enough to do so. Which is kind of the crux of my point, who between the poor and the rich has enough money to up and move, buy a place to live at wherever they move to, and still have enough money left over to sustain themselves there until they are well established? Incidentally, a good chunk of the rich want their own taxes to go up. That should tell you something. -Meta
Yea, amazing how some of the lower calsses can't put that together, just as many of the rich elite who were being benefitted by Hoover's generousity to them actually voted him out; they feared the lower classes were being beaten out their currency could be worthless, just as the Confederate cash became. The rich have too much to lose, they fear disenfranchising all the poor people all the time. The key is to beat them down and not out, but again, some lower class, or MC folks don't get it. We're at a 60-year low on taxes and some people want to go lower, it's obvious they just don't have a lot of common sense or the ability to understand basic economic principles as history clearly shows us.
To Meta777: Thats because they know that all taxes are ultimately paid by working people. Their own taxes go up in theory only. Calling for a tax increase on themselves is the same as the nobility in European monarchies asking the king to raise their taxes. When the king obliged the surfs paid the bill. Its no wonder the wealthy do not want the tax on income repealed even though repeal would include not taxing their incomes. And you might ask Warren Buffett to bring his billions back to this country and pay taxes on that money. Or you can ask him not to take the charitable deduction on the money he gives to foreign charities since the rest of us have to pay for his generosity. Ditto Bill Gates et al. You might even suggest that Buffett simply donate the amount he thinks he should pay. Should he agree I guarantee it will be less than he is paying now.
Flounders, most taxes are paid by the rich, of course with that they are still putting more distance between themselves and the poor, MC and everyone else. So all taxes, directly and indirectly are not paid by the pee-ons as you claim.
The U.S. Are you saying that because a handful of men are regularly caught breaking the law, that there are not ten more which are unseen or that go unpunished? Well, perhaps you've just yet to see them yourself. Just to look at a recent example, were you aware prior to recent events that Gingrich received money from Freddie Mac for 'consulting fees'? He has the spotlight on him now, but this is only because he is running for president of the United States, and as yet no charges have been brought against him for that. When politicians try to screw us over, it usually has a bigger affect on us, but private actors can do the same, and in many cases they are more likely to get away with it. Sure, one or two guys may occasionally take the fall for such things, but talk to people like Jack Abramoff or Bernie Madoff-with-all-my-money, and they'll almost always tell you that they didn't work alone. So I am assuming that you are saying that the rich would simply pass the cost of those taxes onto the poor, correct? Let's assume just for a moment that they would do that. Higher taxes would still mean that the government ends up with a higher percentage of the money. So just what is the government going to do with that money? Well let's say they use it to hire people, this action would add competition to the market in two ways. Any rich person making money by providing a service similar to what the government would be hiring people to do would not be able to pass on costs to the those using their service, or else they would not be able to remain competitive. Any rich person hiring anyone at all would not be able to pass on costs to their employees but cutting their pay as the employees would now have the option of taking what would be a better paying government job, and as such the rich employer would not be able to remain competitive through passing on costs of high taxes to either the employee or the consumer. Tell me Flanders, what do you think the appropriate tax rates should be? And how have you determined these? Or do you believe that there should be no taxes? Are you an anarchist? -Meta
To Meta777: Hardly. I like to think Im a realist. I know that government and religion will plague mankind til the end of time. I believe religion should be voluntary, and government should be limited. The socialist priesthood made their religion involuntary, and our government is far from limited thanks to the tax on income. Let me close by reminding you that the XVI Amendment was never ratified. Nor was the XVII Amendment ratified, but thats another story. I dont want to debate the issue in this thread, but youll find a bunch of links on the topic at this link if you are interested: http://search.aol.com/aol/search?query=XVI+Amendment+never+ratified&s_it=keyword_rollover
How are you a realist? You want the roads to build themselves, elderly to care for themselves even tho they are indigent and disabled, kids to educate themselves, fires to put themselves out, streets to police themselves, felons to prosecute themselves, etc. You're ideas are so deluded that you cannot show us a time of limitied government where it was better, more efficient and more protective. All you can do is utter the theory that, when approached in application, has led to destruction, as right before the Great Republican Depression. All the evidence disputes your theory, yet you never address that, you rarely address my posts or my points, that shows you are unable to as you and your therories are wrong. It's time to actually pony up some examples and evidence and show us how your model will make things better. Will you? Of course not, you have no way to do this as it doesn't exist, you will just ignore this plea for you to do this and keep the rhetoric machine on full-speed.
I never saw the nations capital as a dacha community until I read this: What if our elected officials didn't really live among us, but all instead had their hearts and their homes in Washington, D.C.? Judge Andrew Napolitano is one of the good ones on FOX. His show Freedom Watch is on the FOX Business Channel and is always worth watching. I never understood why the FOX News Channel replaced Glenn Beck with a piece of crap like The Five when Napolitano was available? The former judge is not a motivational speaker as was the late Glenn Beck. Anyway, heres a sample of Napolitano if you are not familiar with him: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5XmjNxKOQvg The Constitution is all-important on Freedom Watch. The following article is beautifully done. Every point is clear and understandable to those of us who have been railing against the growing power of the federal government: What if the Constitution No Longer Applied? Judge Andrew Napolitano What if the whole purpose of the Constitution was to limit the government? What if Congress' enumerated powers in the Constitution no longer limited Congress, but were actually used as justification to extend Congress' authority over every realm of human life? What if the president, meant to be an equal to Congress, has become a democratically elected, term-limited monarch? What if the president assumed everything he did was legal, just because he's the president? What if he could interrupt your regularly scheduled radio and TV programming for a special message from him? What if he could declare war on his own? What if he could read your emails and texts without a search warrant? What if he could kill you without warning? What if the rights and principles guaranteed in the Constitution have been so distorted in the past 200 years as to be unrecognizable by the Founders? What if the states were mere provinces of a totally nationalized and fully centralized government? What if the Constitution was amended stealthily, not by constitutional amendments duly passed by the states, but by the constant and persistent expansion of the federal government's role in our lives? What if the federal government decided whether its own powers were proper and constitutional? What if you needed a license from the government to speak, to assemble or to protest the government? What if the right to keep and bear arms only applied to the government? What if posse comitatus -- the law that prohibits our military from our streets -- were no longer in effect? What if the government considered the military an adequate dispenser of domestic law enforcement? What if cops looked and acted like troops and you couldn't distinguish the military from the police? What if federal agents could write their own search warrants in defiance of the Constitution? What if the government could decide when you weren't entitled to a jury trial? What if the government could take your property whenever it wanted it? What if the government could continue prosecuting you until it got the verdict it wanted? What if the government could force you to testify against yourself simply by labeling you a domestic terrorist? What if the government could torture you until you said what the government wanted to hear? What if people running for president actually supported torture? What if the government tortured your children to get to you? What if the government could send you to your death and your innocence meant nothing so long as the government's procedures were followed? What if America's prison population, the largest in the world, was the result of a cruel and unusual way for a country to be free? What if half the prison population never harmed anyone but themselves? What if the people had no rights except those the government chose to let them have? What if the states had no rights except to do as the federal government commanded? What if our elected officials didn't really live among us, but all instead had their hearts and their homes in Washington, D.C.? What if the government could strip you of your rights because of where your mother was when you were born? What if the income tax was unconstitutional? What if the states were convinced to give up their representation in Congress? What if the government tried to ban you from using a substance older than the government itself? What if voting didn't mean anything anymore because both political parties stand for Big Government? What if the government could write any law, regulate any behavior and tax any event, the Constitution be dam-ned? What if the government was the reason we don't have a Constitution anymore? What if you could love your country but hate what the government has done to it? What if sometimes to love your country, you had to alter or abolish the government? What if Jefferson was right? What if that government is best which governs least? What if I'm right? What if the government is wrong? What if it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong? What if it is better to perish fighting for freedom than to live as a slave? What if freedom's greatest hour of danger is now? http://townhall.com/columnists/judg...24/what_if_the_constitution_no_longer_applied
So, do you feel silly just lecturing us and not providing data? Flounders, I won't make fun as you idolize Beck, altho it would be easy. Ever notice how libs go into details, conservs just throw out unsubstantiated rhetoric? You see it here constantly, as well as other places.
So I am beating a dead horse by referring to those black slaves who primarily built America? How so? Who is America? If you mean the country as an entire people, then they worked for themselves and occasionally each-other, its always been that way and it likely always will be. If you mean something else by America, then you will have to clarify. I am not referring only to tax law, but the breaking of any moral or legal code. If tax cuts are the answer, then why is the country in such a financial mess? Note that during the Clinton years the rich were being taxed more, and there was not this financial mess. So it seems to me that if you want to blame this financial mess on something, you ought blame it on something that happened between then and the start of the mess. That makes absolutely no sense. If taxes are raised on the rich, who will ultimately pay for it? Will it be the rich, or will it be the poor and or middle class? Or will it be some combination, if so, then who pays more? To Meta777: You just dont get it. Ask me those questions after the XVI Amendment has been repealed. [/quote] I'm asking you now. If you believe that the tax rates must be lowered, then you must have some idea of what the appropriate rates should be, and you must have determined this some way, I'm assuming that you did not simply pull a number out of thin air. If you do not know how much people should be taxed, then just say so. Why do you think there should not be a tax on income? And how do you feel about a property tax or a tax on wealth? Oh, well I happen to consider myself a relativist. I can respect your position as a realist, though I happen to believe that such a thing is too close to absolutism, and that such views are a tad too broad, overarching, and far too self-serving. Just about any and every ideology or belief out there will claim to speak the truth, and as such can consider themselves realists, but it may not necessarily be the case that one does speak the truth, even if they believe that they do, after all, flat-earthers could at one time be considered realists. -Meta
To Meta777: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBzJGckMYO4&feature=player_detailpage"]Porky Pig Cartoon Ending "That's All Folks!" - YouTube[/ame]
Ever notice how libs go into details, conservs just throw out unsubstantiated rhetoric? You see it here constantly, as well as other places.[/I] Being funny is one thing, but you have to pony up the goods and your philosophy just does not do that. Your philosophy is one of 100% followership or else; with us or against us, to be more liberal you reason things thru. I do realize your ideologies are unsubstantiable, so it's not you personally, it's what you subscribe to. None of you have even come close to or tried to explainhow tax cuts do anythiung but send this country into the gargabe can, as illustrated by the Great Republican Depression and the Great Republican Recession.
Heres a video of Judge Napolitano speaking the text from the article I posted in #33 permalink: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX41SkKN0tQ&feature=player_detailpage"]11-24-11 Freedom Watch - The Plain Truth - YouTube[/ame]
