Dirty face of Libya"ven after the revolution they say if a Berber tries to go to any

litwin · Mar 16, 2012

Dirty face of Libya"ven after the revolution they say if a Berber tries to go to any of those villages he will be shot at." http://blogs.aljazeera.net/africa/2011/12/28/now-free-berber-people-libya

what do you think about federalization of Libya? good or bad idea?

waltky · Jul 6, 2012

Libyans gonna try democracy...

Tensions in Libya ahead of first post-Gadhafi election
6 July`12 Fears of militia violence and calls for a boycott threatened Friday to mar Libya's first nationwide parliamentary election, a milestone on the oil-rich North African nation's rocky path toward democracy after the ouster of dictator Moammar Gadhafi.

Saturday's vote for a 200-member transitional parliament caps a tumultuous nine-month transition toward democracy for the country after a bitter civil war that ended with the capture and killing of Gadhafi in October. Many Libyans had hoped the oil-rich nation of 6 million would quickly thrive and become a magnet for investment, but the country has suffered a virtual collapse in authority that has left formidable challenges. Armed militias still operate independently, and deepening regional and tribal divisions erupt into violence with alarming frequency.

On the eve of Saturday's vote, gunmen shot down a helicopter carrying polling materials near the eastern city of Benghazi, the birthplace of the revolution, killing one election worker, said Saleh Darhoub, a spokesman for the ruling National Transitional Council. The crew survived after a crash landing. Prime Minister Abdurrahim el-Keib vowed the government would ensure a safe vote Saturday, and condemned the election worker's killing and those who seek to derail the vote. "Any action aimed at hindering the election process is against the supreme interest of the nation and serves only the remnants of the old regime," he said next to a screen showing the face of the slain worker. "It is threatening to the future of the revolution and its accomplishments and an attempt to stop democracy for which Libyans sacrificed their souls."

It was not immediately clear who was behind Friday's shooting, but it was the latest unrest in a messy run-up to the vote that has put a spotlight on some of the major fault lines in the country the east-west divide, the Islamist versus secularist political struggle. Many in Libya's oil-rich east feel slighted by the election laws issued by the National Transitional Council, the body that led the rebel cause during the civil war. The laws allocate the east less than a third of the parliamentary seats, with the rest going to the western region that includes Tripoli and the sparsely-settled desert south.

The east was systematically neglected and marginalized for decades by Gadhafi, and easterners are sensitive to anything they perceive of as an attempt to prolong that neglect after the sacrifices they made during the civil war. After the NTC passed election laws, several tribal leaders along with former rebel commanders in the east declared self-rule, set up their own council and formed their own army, while saying that they would boycott elections and even work to prevent Saturday's vote from taking place. They are pushing for semi-autonomy for the east.

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Libya election helicopter 'shot near Benghazi'
6 July 2012 - Saturday's historic vote is causing tensions in the east of the country

Gunmen have fired at a helicopter carrying voting material for Saturday's election, killing an electoral worker, officials have said. The helicopter made a forced landing outside the eastern town of Benghazi. The identity of the attackers is not known, but eastern Libya has been a focus of unrest by groups seeking greater regional autonomy. The parliamentary poll is the first national vote since Col Muammar Gaddafi was toppled last year.

The news came as armed men closed at least three oil export terminals in the east in protest at the vote. They are angry that the west of the country has been granted more seats in the new 200-member General National Congress than the oil-rich east. The current system allocates 100 seats to the west, 60 to the east and 40 to the south. According to Reuters news agency, about half of Libya's oil exporting capacity has been shut down as a result.

Rogue militia

"A helicopter carrying ballots and flying over the region of Hawari [south of Benghazi] was struck by small arms fire," AFP news agency quotes Col Ali al-Sheikhi as saying. He said one person, later identified as an electoral worker, was killed when the helicopter was struck by anti-aircraft fire. The more than four-decade rule of Col Gaddafi, who died in October after the eight-month uprising, has left the country deeply divided along ethnic, regional and ideological lines.

The BBC's Rana Jawad in the capital, Tripoli, says the country is still awash with weapons and there are lone regional and city brigades as well as some rogue militia groups that only take orders from themselves. More than 2,000 candidates are standing for election to the legislative body which will replace the National Transitional Council (NTC) that led the campaign against Gaddafi.

More http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-18740803
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leftysergeant · Jul 7, 2012

Libya was a Federated KIngdom for a period after WWII. The United Kingdom may have been a western invention to make it easier to develop the oil fields under a uniform set of labor laws that favored the Royal Family and the oil companies. That, from what I could gather poking around Tripoli in the late 1960s, was part of the motivation for the revolution in 1969.

Maybe the best idea is to let it break up and let the various tribes sort themselves out across the entire Maghreb. Let the Tuareg hack a bit of a state out of the countries whose borders the French set without their consent.

It would be the last thing that Ansar Dine would wish to see happen. They would probably have to evacuate Tombuctou in a real hurry.

litwin · Jul 7, 2012

leftysergeant said: ↑

Libya was a Federated KIngdom for a period after WWII. The United Kingdom may have been a western invention to make it easier to develop the oil fields under a uniform set of labor laws that favored the Royal Family and the oil companies. That, from what I could gather poking around Tripoli in the late 1960s, was part of the motivation for the revolution in 1969.

Maybe the best idea is to let it break up and let the various tribes sort themselves out across the entire Maghreb. Let the Tuareg hack a bit of a state out of the countries whose borders the French set without their consent.

It would be the last thing that Ansar Dine would wish to see happen. They would probably have to evacuate Tombuctou in a real hurry.
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with is wrong , Tuareg are our natural allies

Mandrake · Jul 7, 2012

litwin said: ↑

with is wrong , Tuareg are our natural allies
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Maybe yours, but they were enemies to those that opposed Gaddafi.

litwin · Jul 7, 2012

Mandrake said: ↑

Maybe yours, but they were enemies to those that opposed Gaddafi.
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too much fox news? they fight on both sides , but you ....

Terrorist “Emir” Touts Key Role of Benghazi, Darnah in al Qaeda
The West Point study makes clear that the main bulwarks of the LIFG and of the later AQIM were the twin cities of Benghazi and Darnah. This is documented in a statement by Abu Layth al-Libi, the self-styled “Emir” of the LIFG, who later became a top official of al Qaeda. At the time of the 2007 merger, “Abu Layth al-Libi, LIFG’s Emir, reinforced Benghazi and Darnah’s importance to Libyan jihadis in his announcement that LIFG had joined al-Qa’ida, saying: ‘It is with the grace of God that we were hoisting the banner of jihad against this apostate regime under the leadership of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, which sacrificed the elite of its sons and commanders in combating this regime whose blood was spilled on the mountains of Darnah, the streets of Benghazi, the outskirts of Tripoli, the desert of Sabha, and the sands of the beach.’”10

This 2007 merger meant that the Libyan recruits for Al Qaeda became an increasingly important part of the activity of this organization as a whole, shifting the center of gravity to some degree away from the Saudis and Egyptians who had previously been most conspicuous. As Felter and Fishman comment, “Libyan factions (primarily the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group) are increasingly important in al-Qa’ida. The Sinjar Records offer some evidence that Libyans began surging into Iraq in larger numbers beginning in May 2007. Most of the Libyan recruits came from cities in northeast Libya, an area long known for jihadi-linked militancy.”11

The December 2007 West Point study concludes by formulating some policy options for the United States government. One approach, the authors suggest, would be for the United States to cooperate with existing Arab governments against the terrorists. As Felter and Fishman write, “The Syrian and Libyan governments share the United States’ concerns about violent salafi-jihadi ideology and the violence perpetrated by its adherents. These governments, like others in the Middle East, fear violence inside their borders and would much rather radical elements go to Iraq rather than cause unrest at home. U.S. and Coalition efforts to stem the flow of fighters into Iraq will be enhanced if they address the entire logistical chain that supports the movement of these individuals—beginning in their home countries — rather than just their Syrian entry points. The U.S. may be able to increase cooperation from governments to stem the flow of fighters into Iraq by addressing their concerns about domestic jihadi violence.”12 Given the course of subsequent events, we are on firm ground in concluding that this option was not the one selected, neither in the closing years of the Bush administration nor during the first half of the Obama administration.

The West Point study also offers another, more sinister perspective. Felter and Fishman hint that it might be possible to use the former LIFG components of Al Qaeda against the government of Colonel Qaddafi in Libya, in essence creating a de facto alliance between the United States and a segment of the terrorist organization. The West Point report notes: “The Libyan Islamic Fighting Group’s unification with al-Qa’ida and its apparent decision to prioritize providing logistical support to the Islamic State of Iraq is likely controversial within the organization. It is likely that some LIFG factions still want to prioritize the fight against the Libyan regime, rather than the fight in Iraq. It may be possible to exacerbate schisms within LIFG, and between LIFG’s leaders and al-Qa’ida’s traditional Egyptian and Saudi power-base.”13 This suggests the US policy we see today, that of allying with the obscurantist and reactionary al Qaeda fanatics in Libya against the Nasserist modernizer Qaddafi.

Arming the Rebels: The Experience of Afghanistan
Looking back at the tragic experience of US efforts to incite the population of Afghanistan against the Soviet occupation in the years after 1979, it should be clear that the policy of the Reagan White House to arm the Afghan mujahedin with Stinger missiles and other modern weapons turned out to be highly destructive for the United States. As current Defense Secretary Robert Gates comes close to admitting in his memoirs, Al Qaeda was created during those years by the United States as a form of Arab Legion against the Soviet presence, with long-term results which have been highly lamented.

Today, it is clear that the United States is providing modern weapons for the Libyan rebels through Saudi Arabia and across the Egyptian border with the active assistance of the Egyptian army and of the newly installed pro-US Egyptian military junta.14 This is a direct violation of UN Security Council resolution 1973, which calls for a complete arms embargo on Libya. The assumption is that these weapons will be used against Gaddafi in the coming weeks. But, given the violently anti-American nature of the population of northeast Libya that is now being armed, there is no certainty that these weapons will not be soon turned against those who have provided them.

A broader problem is represented by the conduct of the future Libyan government dominated by the current rebel council with its large current majority of northeastern Islamists, or of a similar government of a future Cyrenaica rump state. To the extent that such regimes will have access to oil revenues, obvious problems of international security are posed. Gamage wonders: “If the rebellion succeeds in toppling the Qaddafi regime it will have direct access to the tens of billions of dollars that Qaddafi is believed to have squirreled away in overseas accounts during his four-decade rule.”15 Given the northeast Libyan mentality, we can imagine what such revenues might be used for.
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Mandrake · Jul 7, 2012

litwin said: ↑

too much fox news? they fight on both sides , but you ....
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Hey, we arm them all and let them kill each other. They've totally ruined their stupid country and all we had to do was watch and laugh at them. They are monkeys armed with the razors we gave them, fighting each other in a cage while we cheer and make bets. I guess they shouldn't have annoyed us.

waltky · Jul 27, 2013

Libya, like Egypt, also wants army and police instead of Brotherhood...

LIBYAN PROTESTERS STORM ISLAMIST OFFICES
Jul. 27,`13 Protesters stormed the offices of Islamist-allied parties in Libya's main cities on Saturday, angry over the killing of an activist critical of the country's Muslim Brotherhood group.

Hundreds gathered in the capital Tripoli after dawn prayers, denouncing the Friday shooting death of Abdul-Salam Al-Musmari. They set fire to tires in the street and demanded the dissolution of Islamist parties. Protesters appeared to be inspired by events in neighboring Egypt, where millions took to the streets Friday to answer a call from the army chief, who said he wanted a mandate to stop "potential terrorism" by supporters of the country's ousted president, Mohammed Morsi, who hails from the Brotherhood. "We don't want the Brotherhood, we want the army and the police," Libyan protesters chanted, repeating a slogan also used in Egypt. Libya's nascent security forces are struggling to control the country's militias, most of whom have roots in the rebel groups that overthrew dictator Moammar Gadhafi in 2011.

Some protesters stormed the headquarters of a Brotherhood-affiliated political party and another Islamist-allied party, destroying furniture. Witnesses say a Brotherhood party office was also stormed in the eastern city of Benghazi. Al-Musmari, who used to publicly criticize the Muslim Brotherhood, was killed by unknown assailants in a drive-by shooting in Benghazi. In a statement Saturday, Human Rights Watch urged the Libyan government to "conduct a prompt and thorough investigation" of al-Musmari's death, believed to be the first targeted killing of a political activist. "Libya's fragile transition is at stake if political killings go unpunished," said Nadim Houry, deputy Middle East and North Africa director at Human Rights Watch. "This makes investigating al-Musmari's murder all the more urgent."

Libya's top religious figure, Grand Mufti Sheikh Sadeq al-Ghariani, warned his countrymen earlier in the week against copying Egypt and bringing down the Libyan government. Morsi, Egypt's first freely elected president, was ousted by the military on July 3 after millions took to the streets demanding his removal. Al-Ghariani's warning was posted Wednesday on his official website against unspecified parties "trying to create crises in electricity and gas, and those taking advantage of tribal loyalties to the ousted dictator Moammar Gadhafi." Long hours of blackouts and the severe shortage of fuel contributed to Morsi's unpopularity.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/libyans-protest-killing-activist
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SAUER · Jul 28, 2013

litwin said: ↑

Dirty face of Libya"ven after the revolution they say if a Berber tries to go to any of those villages he will be shot at." http://blogs.aljazeera.net/africa/2011/12/28/now-free-berber-people-libya

what do you think about federalization of Libya? good or bad idea?
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They can try. But I doubt that this move (federalization) can essentially improve the situation there.

litwin · Jul 28, 2013

SAUER said: ↑

They can try. But I doubt that this move (federalization) can essentially improve the situation there.
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i vote for an independent Berber state (s)

SAUER · Jul 28, 2013

litwin said: ↑

i vote for an independent Berber state (s)
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I will refrain from voting at the moment

litwin · Aug 3, 2013

SAUER said: ↑

I will refrain from voting at the moment
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i see your point, but think about N-Africa before the Arab wild hordes appeared there ...

[video=youtube;HetYXwtCCho]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HetYXwtCCho[/video]

SAUER · Aug 4, 2013

litwin said: ↑

i see your point, but think about N-Africa before the Arab wild hordes appeared there ...

[video=youtube;HetYXwtCCho]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HetYXwtCCho[/video]
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the informative video.

litwin · Aug 4, 2013

SAUER said: ↑

the informative video.
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Carthage died because it has too much money no one knows where money came, from to pay such a huge indemnities . today Egypt dies because it doesn't have them

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