DMV is Socialism, Too

I remember reading a few opinion pieces in some allegedly journalistic outlets, some videos, and some threads on this forum that mentioned that police, fire, EMT, military, etc., were aspects of socialism. Therefore, socialism is good! Alas, many conservatives either argued against this by trying to have an abstract, esoteric debate about public goods versus commodities--or tried to argue it in another way to somehow prove that those services were not forms of socialism.

After considering those so-argued socialistic services, I pondered. For the sake of argument, let's assume that those services are forms of socialism. Well, then, the DMV is socialism, too, no? I just came from the DVM today to renew my license. The DMV closes at 5:00 PM where I live. I left my apartment shortly after 4:00 PM. I got there a little before 4:30 PM. I waited in line, outside, for about 15 minutes, only for some DMV employee, wearing a mask, telling the entire line of people that they were not helping anyone else for the rest of the day. When a lady politely informed the DMV employee that she had been waiting for an hour and a half, and that a DMV employee could have come out earlier to state this, the DMV employee simply uncaringly repeated that they were not helping anyone else for the rest of the day, and then went back inside.

In what non-government job could you do something like that, where you don't have to follow the basic conventions of etiquette of customer service and not be fired soon after? In what other job could you tell waiting customers, who were waiting, 30 minutes or more before closing, that you are not assisting other customers? I asked myself, "How does the DMV not automatically convert anyone who is not sadomasochistic to immediately become conversative or libertarian?" Then I asked myself rhetorically, "Well, gee, why don't pro-socialist also use the DMV as an example of an element of socialism? Might it hurt their argument about the pros of socialism?" For the sake of argument, let's grant that police, fire, EMT, military, etc., are forms of socialism. That doesn't make socialism as a whole good. Fire is good in the hearth for warming the room on a cold winter's day, but you certainly wouldn't want your house engulfed in flames, would you? In other words, the argument "some forms of socialism is good; therefore, socialism as a whole is good" is an argument based on a false premise.

 

Any tax payer funded service can fall under the guise of "Socialism".
I don't think right wingers have fear of social program but more of the extreme kind, like wealth redistribution, like the government coming in and saying "ok boys, you ALL now have THIS salary and 90% of it is the property of the government"
I think most people are well aware that socialism exists and its backed by capitalism

 

Just like you guys saying that socialism doesn't work.

 

The purpose of government is protection. A person who calls that socialism is proving little more than their own ignorance on the definition of socialism.

 

Have you tried customer service lately in the US. Most are based on the internet and use AI in those chat boxes that give standardized answers. This is true for companies like Cellphone, energy service companies, IT, and a whole bunch of others. At the same time, we have become impatient people. Nowadays, most government offices no longer accept walk-ins. You must now make an appointment. This is true for USCIS, DMV, at least in Texas, IRS walk-in offices, SS offices, and so forth. Even the VA can have long lines even though you have made an appointment for whatever is ailing you. Or if you decide to call Customer Service for the IRS, be prepared to wait for an extended period of time, or you can go to the website and see if that answers your question. But that is US customer service today.

As for the DMV, police, EMT, military, etc, yes, they are using economic socialism aspects in which the Government controls those areas. Private companies don't get involved because they see no profit in it. It is a necessary service. Personally, I think you went there too late and what happened was bound to happen. People leave when that horn sounds, figuratively speaking, and the government does not want to pay overtime to hourly employees there. And yes, they are hourly employees. You should go there at the time when they open and not before. If they have an appointment scheduler, use that is my recommendation.

 

I work in the IT industry, and no way do we not serve customers during our business hours of operation. True, we utilize AI chat, but there is always an opportunity to speak with a live agent during our hours of operation; and many of the times the AI chat answers the questions. Agents work on the more complicated stuff.

Thanks for making my point about the badness of socialism.

Additionally, on the website for the DMV where I live, you don't need an appointment. The people talking on the line did bring up appointments. They mentioned that there was no appointment to be made when they utilized the website calendar service.

Would you be in favor of making voting this difficult? Why or why not?

Arriving too late would be coming there at 5:00 PM. If I arrive at 4:59 PM or anytime earlier, they should definitely serve me, as would any private business during that time, especially if what I need done is something that is mandatory by law. If I have to be there to get my license renewed, you should service me. And what would you tell the lady who waited an hour and a half on line, just to be told no? I mean, in comparison to her, my time was relatively not wasted. (Oh, the benefits of socialism, people. Your time can be relatively not wasted. Oh joy!) And she was in the middle of the line. There was a woman with her kids who was in the front. Considering how slow they were going, I am assuming she was waiting there for at least 2 hours (2 hours!!!!!!!!) before they closed. What would you tell them?

(Oh, by the way, the two women were racial minorities, one was Asian, the other was Hispanic.)

Again, if I have to show up at the DMV, taking time out of my day to get there and wait, and I get there early, they should provide the service. If they can't, privatize it.

 

In what reality is governments purpose "protection"?

Government has proven itself through history as the leader of the worst atrocities against mankind than any other group or organization.

If you think government purpose is to protect you. That's the problem. I don't need a nanny, why do you?

 

Most conservatives recognize that social instruments must be imposed to take care of those that can't take care of themselves, provide for common benefits, defense, protect the free market, etc.

Conservatives are not anarchists.

What we are opposed to, when discussing these constructs, is the constant desire use these concepts to engineer outcomes and chase their view of utopia from an authoritative agenda.

Our country has always been a blend of socialism and capitalism from an economic perspective.

It's the progressive lefts desire to prioritize their agenda above freedom and individual liberty. It's why every "great idea" the progressive left has must be instituted by force.

 

Government programs are not socialism. For government to own and operate businesses would be socialism. You can call the postal service socialism I suppose but it was an enumerated responsibility of federal government in the constitution.

 

Like running the business of schools, which could very easily be provided by the private sector.

 

Its a little more than that.

 

Not in the least.

 

One citizen can’t teach another citizen without state intervention?

 

Not to national standards.

 

You don’t trust your fellows to properly educate each other without the state getting involved?

 

Not the religious nuts.

 

Ah, so you don’t trust “religious nuts”. But what if you lived in a jurisdiction where 51% of your fellows happened to be “religious nuts”? Would you be happy when they passed laws about how they were going to educate the population? Would you be happy with the book bans? When people have the power to force you to comply with their wishes, see that’s a bad thing. Everyone ought to be free to choose, for example, how they are educated. And government force doesn’t seem to mix well with that idea.

 

No they shouldn't.

 

In a very colloquial sense maybe, but socialism is a well defined ideology that's not just "government doing things". A bit like claiming the Soviet Union was laissez-faire capitalist because they used currency.

I do hate the DVM with a passion though. I feel like if I one day die and go to Hell I'll be perpetually in a line at the DMV that rarely moves, and when you get to the front they tell you that you don't have the proper paperwork and need to start the line again. Repeat for eternity. A kind of paperwork based Myth of Sisyphus.

I deliberately got most licenses early in life so I never have to go back. Motorbike and multi-combination truck are the only licenses I'm yet to get.

I once failed my manual car test because the instructor decided I was in too low a gear for good fuel economy (I was at 1500rpm). I then went back with a trainer and his car. The trainer shook hands with the instructor and they chatted for a few minutes about each other's families. I then drove once around the block, didn't even have to parallel park and was passed.

There is a lot of hidden corruption around that's hard to prove.

 

Are you saying that the government, not the civil society, should determine how we’re educated. That seems like a pretty draconian stance, if you ask me.

 

I did not make the argument you don't serve customers. I made the argument of what customer service is in the private industry: point and click, email, and so forth.

I wasn't not making that point about how good socialism is. I simply made the point that government is involved, with no profit motive, on certain services that private industry does not see the need nor profit in them. Again, there is something to be said about standardization, especially when government documents are concerned such as DL, taxes, and so forth. It would be extremely chaotic and have a higher expense if we allow private businesses to issue DLs and charge a higher fee in the process.

That is your state. In my state, Texas, it has to be an appointment. Every other time you renew your DL, you can also do it online, if you meet certain conditions such as no outstanding traffic tickets, bench warrants, DUIs on your records, and so forth. But if you have to go in, you must make an appointment and bring all the necessary documents such as a birth certificate, your DL, and something proving where you live such as energy bill or credit card statement. The appontment is anywhere from 14 days to 21 days. For new DLs, it is about 45 days or longer. We have closed many DL offices in rural areas, which is affecting those residents, but in metro centers, we have built supercenters. More of these in urban/suburban areas than in rural areas, especially in West Texas.

No, I am not in favor of making voting more difficult. I do not like in my state restricting voters in where they can drop off their mail in ballots, or the GOP efforts to eliminate mail in ballots, even absentee ballots, and so forth. I also think that having extremely long lines in urban areas that are primarily democrat is an effort to minimize minority and poor people voting. How about you?

It was too late given that the place was walk ins. And that happens if you arrive at 4:30 for something you need to do. But you have proven my main point, we are impatient people nowadays. In my lifetime, over five decades, I have always made the time to get this done if I had to be there in person at the DMV or any other governmental office where no appointments were made available. I usually showed up at 8am or earlier and made arrangements with my work well in advance on what needed to be done. Thankfully, I had reasonable bosses, both in private and in government. It is all about efficiently managing your time with work and personal issues. Waiting to the last minute, relatively speaking, is your fault and no one elses.

 

Hey if you want to get brain surgery from a veterinarian be my guest.

 

Do you think any of your fellow citizens would be so stupid? If you do, first, I’m sorry for you, and second, how can you advocate democracy?

 

Yes I do and we get the govt we deserve.

 

So you think your neighbors are stupid, and you want them to control you? Weird.