Do we have a right to breathe air?

Do you somehow not see this as a basic and valid right?

 

This has nothing to do with pollution or anybody's right to breathe clean air.




It has everything to do with the lefts unquenchable desire to tell everybody else what to do and to be the self proclaimed boss of their collectivist invention.

Remember that bossy kid when you were young? Thats the left.

 

I see it as complete and utter BS. The US air pollution has been getting better and better for decades.

Your idealism does not trump my reality.

 

Yes it does.

Source? I am telling you, and it was my thread!

For me it is.

For many it is.

But go ahead, you use it as a political football and a chance to label people, if you wish...

 

What do you consider to be BS?

Be specific.

FYI, I am in Scotland, Edinburgh specifically.

So I cannot speak for the US, which I imagine would vary, place to place.

On a global level, if you truly think mankind is not killing the planet, then there is probably nothing anyone can do for you.

Sorry.

 

I would have to say, yes, there are quite a lot of cities that were not designed with proper urban planning methods. Judging by the constant flow of construction across many of our major arteries across the planet, yes, most roads were not originally meant to handle so much car traffic. I have been guilty (much more so in the past) of taking solo trips simply for the sake of enjoying a drive, so, yes, score another "true" for your series.

A rental option does seem civilized, but only as an option and not as a mandate. The car is a matter of convenience, too, you know. There are some of us who would prefer the privacy and relative safety of a car as opposed to, say, a Segway. Goes without saying, we may prefer the speed (and the simple freedom of how far we can go with that speed) and creature comforts, as well.

A law that would restrict driving in many parts of a city would do much more harm than good, particularly from an economic perspective. The simple truth is that we need more laws that permanently end our dependency on the way these cars end up polluting our air. By that, I mean, completely doing away with petrol stations and the need to use them.

 

I'm not saying your 1948 smog pic is a trick, but without a cite to go with it, it may as well be fog. Have you got a cite for it?

 

I think you'd like his work, Jack. His most famous book is Slaughterhouse Five (ranked the 18th greatest English novel of the 20th century by Modern Library):

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Slaughterhouse-Five-Kurt-Vonnegut/dp/0440180295"]Amazon.com: Slaughterhouse-Five (9780440180296): Kurt Vonnegut: Books[/ame]

I'm not sure I agree with the premise of your question, Jack. I think we might be better off asking the extremist fruitcakes in the environmental movement what they hope to accomplish with their antics (?). If one doesn't take themselves and their cause seriously, why should anyone else?

Sticking to the issue of environmentalism, I think most people see beyond the self-serving actions of the environmental lobby and the antics of extremist fruitcakes. The problem is there's so much hysteria, bad science/information and unrealistic demands out there that the public has a hard time separating the wheat from the chaff.

 

LOL.....you won't find a single "right winger" in the bolded. Those are Liberal Dems making that space helmet. Nice try.

 

If there exists any intelligent but non-politically oriented lifeforms in this universe, they'd surely be in for a shock should they ever visit our planet and observe our astounding inability to rationally deal with our problems - or even agree on what constitutes a problem, whether real, imaginary, or potential.

 

You posted it in a political forum.



Classify your politics however you want. Your authoritarianism is astounding.

 

The typical.

"My opinions are right. If you don't believe me, then I will attempt to invalidate you. How could my opinion possibly NOT be fact."

Unreal.

 

They could always use the brain that they have, and the eyes in their head.

You need not be an environmental expert to know that with deforestation and the rape of the oceans, we are, in very real terms, killing that which we entirely rely on.

 

I know.... Leftys are beyond ridicules...

 

Okay, try answering these in simple terms, see how we go with that.

Do you understand I have said I cannot speak for the US, when it comes to traffic flow?

Do you understand that I said I can only speak for my own city?

Do you understand that I am in my city, and you are not?

Do you understand that due to this small but important fact, I am able to best relate the traffic situation in my own city?

Still with me on this? Good stuff.

Now that you understand that, I want you to use your intelligence.

If you put more and more cars on the road, do you think this...

A) Increases toxins in the air

B) Increases the chances of car related fatalities

C) Makes it a less enjoyable experience for those that wish to shop in the city centre

Still there?

Now, how about globally.

I appreciate you are no expert on the environment, neither am I, but let's use our common sense here, okay.

At the present rate of raping oceans and forests, how do you think that is going to play out, not just for our dumb species, but for all?

I'll eat a biscuit while you think of what to say.

 

Much like the late George Carlin, as I have grown older, I have become a misanthropist who has almost given up on my own species.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KPEJNGAlqw"]"I gave up on my species" - George Carlin - YouTube[/ame]

 

Yes I did.

Because it is something that should cross the entire political spectrum, and why - because the entire political spectrum are humans, and raping the oceans and forests, while chasing the god of money, it will impact on everyone.

Your simplistic inclination to using that as a means to make it something that the 'left' perpetuate, shows you to be unworthy of debate, since you use the default of failing to answer straight questions, failure to accept facts that are in front of your own nose.

Authoritarianism?

Puh-lease, only the feeble minded on here are going to buy that, and will acknowledge that regulations are needed for the benefit of everyone, and they will realise that survival means that we must do more than pay lip service to the rape of our oceans and forests, and the poisoning of our air.

 

Then maybe an a forum related to your town would be a better platform for your topic rather than an international forum. Do you know how many people from YOUR town, who may be affected by YOUR agenda there are on this forum?

Your line of thinking is running rampant. I am arguing against your line of thinking, not your line of thinking while considering your location.

 

Then I will try to word it another way, and use an example to better illustrate what I mean.

We do not need to be a world of experts to know that we rely on healthy air, oceans, and forests, for every single living thing to survive.

We just need to have a quarter of a wit.

And yet, it is only a tiny % who actually seem to even care, despite it likely having more chance of ultimately leading to catastrophic changes in the environment, that will effect the health of all species, including our own.

Why is it the minority who at least care enough to see that which is in front of their face?

And here is my example.

Have you ever heard of the Stanford Prison Experiment?

Again, during it, only around 10-15% of participants used their own brain, rather than concede it over to an authoritative order.

Why does it always seem to be the minority whose actions and intent are good, then you have a large % of ignorant and apathetic people, then a % of those that make financial gain from literally killing that which all of us rely on?

 

I think you will find that is personal abuse, and a violation of the rules of the forum, unless they have changed.

It is a shame that you had to resort to that, but I am sure you will be along any time soon to say I 'made you' behave that way, right?

 

So your views on environmental issues trumps that of the market.

Yes, environmental issues, as injected into the political arena is systematically perpetrated by the left.

I haven't seen you present one single sourced fact yet.

http://mrsdell.org/gr2/factopinion.html

2nd grade material.

You just can't validate your opinions without trying to invalidate me.

Must be a pretty weak argument you got there bud.

au·thor·i·tar·i·an/əˌTHôriˈte(&#601rēən/
Noun: An authoritarian person.
Adjective: Favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom: "the transition from an authoritarian to a democratic regime"


Just because you support it doesn't make the definition of the word change.

So I suppose that you don't own a car, heat your home, use electricity, ride public transportation, cook food....

Right?

 

Not all environmental issues are easily quantifiable, Jack. In those instances, one almost has to be an environmental expert to judge between people's competing claims.

Having seen the enormous environmental improvements in my own area, I think it can be said that most people want common sense solutions to the environmental problems we face today...

 

No... you really are a POS. Arrogant one too.

Let me guess. You're 18 years old living at home?

 

I guess the reason I don't buy the premise of your question is that I don't believe a tiny minority of people care about the environment. There are a lot of people all across the political spectrum who do care. Just because they don't go along with everything the environmental lobby argues doesn't mean they're ignorant and/or apathetic.

 

Only if they are not all smoke and mirrors.

A few years ago, in certain British cities, they began to insist that householders divide their rubbish into that which could and could not be re-cycled.

Neat idea in principle, right?

In practice - smoke and mirrors. In practice, they often did not have the man power to cope with the large scale recycling, and it would all end up in a land fill site, anyway, which is precisely what people were told their actions would help avoid.

And, of course, it remains two faced for Governments to preach to us about the small things, when Gov's of the world often permit and oversee the worse pollutions.