Do welfare/govt handouts create dependance

all good points here. but I wanna toouch on that bolded section.

you are soooo right about how hard it is to get off of it. but the key is to hunker down. I mean all the way down. no luxuries at all for a while. no new Nikes just buy em used from garage sales, shop at Goodwill for clothes instead of Macy's, eat tuna out the can with crackers for breakfast/lunch/dinner, no cable just go outside and throw the football or something or read a book, no extra light bulbs so turn off the lights when you leave a room,etc..

I had to do all those ^ things and more to finally get off the Welfare.

The problem is most people that are on it don't do that. they want what the Jones' have. and they want it NOW!...my neighbor was on Welfare with me and she had to have her Big screen TV's complete with PS3, brand new sneakers on all her kids feet, she drove a newer model Cadillac at the time, she dressed nice herself, they BBQ'd almost every day on the stoop. And to this very day, she still lives in the projects I once lived in, just in a bigger unit, same Cadillac from back then but less attractive now, but she still talks like she wants to get out of the area. but she doesn't want to do what it takes to get out. just liveing off Welfare. and she's happy about it. And I don't ever remember her having a job, ever. I just saw those checks.

 

all good points here. but I wanna toouch on that bolded section.

you are soooo right about how hard it is to get off of it. but the key is to hunker down. I mean all the way down. no luxuries at all for a while. no new Nikes just buy em used from garage sales, shop at Goodwill for clothes instead of Macy's, eat tuna out the can with crackers for breakfast/lunch/dinner, no cable just go outside and throw the football or something or read a book, no extra light bulbs so turn off the lights when you leave a room,etc..

I had to do all those ^ things and more to finally get off the Welfare.

The problem is most people that are on it don't do that. they want what the Jones' have. and they want it NOW!...my neighbor was on Welfare with me and she had to have her Big screen TV's complete with PS3, brand new sneakers on all her kids feet, she drove a newer model Cadillac at the time, she dressed nice herself, they BBQ'd almost every day on the stoop. And to this very day, she still lives in the projects I once lived in, just in a bigger unit, same Cadillac from back then but less attractive now, but she still talks like she wants to get out of the area. but she doesn't want to do what it takes to get out. just living off Welfare. and she's happy about it. And I don't ever remember her having a job, ever. I just saw those checks.

 

depends what is defined as wealth and luxuries free health care, education, reasonable housing, and food should all be rights that are entitled to the people by the government

opportunity for wealth should come after these basic requirements are met and wealth should be confiscated from the rich and businesses to pay for these expenses

 

disagree on one uses their welfare to buy cadillacs, nikes, big screen tvs that is incorrect.

welfare should provide for some entertainment needs because it is inhumane otherwise even some prisoners get TV, but it should not and is not extravagant as described above

no one gets that enough welfare to purchase a cadillac that is common sense

 

The glossy aspirationalism of modern consumer society is certainly a contributory factor, but hopelessness from a percieved lack of opportunity also has a huge effect. If you are put in a position that you can see no realistic chance of ever being able to escape, it's only natural to try to make the best of it and enjoy it as much as you can. There are certainly some at the moment who don't want to put the effort in, but that are probably more who just can't see any realistic possibility of a return on that investment of effort, so don't see any value in attempting it. In the generational scenario, they can often see for themselves that there's plainly no escape, (because nobody has escaped!) and are often being told virtually from birth that they can't escape, so all they can do is make the best of what they can get in the situation they are in.

People have to have hope that their efforts are likely to be rewarded, because there is actually opportunity there for them if they put in the work to be able to take it. Yes, they do have to realise that they have to live without some of those luxuries that some others indulge in in the short term to be able to use the money as part of their 'escape plan', but they have to see some hope of success before they are likely to try. At the moment, so many of them just can't see a way out, and even when some do get out of it it is oft6en assumed that they were somehow 'special' anyway, and escape isn't a possibility for 'ordinary people like me'.

It's a very difficult mindset to get people out of, of course, but dismissing those people as 'lazy' would be to abandon them on the basis of something which isn't actually accurate in many cases. Alot of those people aren't 'lazy', or 'greedy', but just living without hope of being able improve their lot in life, and trying to make the best that they can of their inevitable and inescapable life 'at the bottom'. They need to be able to see that the opportunities are really there, and the see that they are personally capable of taking those opportunities, and to see that it's worthwhile making the short-term sacrifices to take those opportunites to improve their long term prospects. It's about opportunity, incentive, and hope, and helping people to gain the confidence in themselves and the world around them to believe that real improvement is actually possible and realistically attainable for them if they only put some effort into it.

 

That hasn't been Scandinavia's experience.

Again, it depends on the system and the cultures involved.

 

as you can see - I am replying to the very first post (have not read any of the replies yet)

Having been in the bowels of the ghetto - too many people work the system as a revenue stream to coincide with other hustles ranging from working for cash, to many illegal and/or immoral socially destructive adventures.

If you have been there and deny it - you may be:

1. a liar
2. a clueless person who refuses to recognize the destructive nature of the endeavors conducted there
3. an social blood sucker not wanting the rest of the people to figure this out
4. or .... one heck of a GREAT finance manager and have wasted your skills by not trying to do better.

​

 

Pretty much what I was trying to say.

 

What welfare programs do is create perverse incentives. When a person makes a bad decision they usually suffer the consequences and don't make the same mistake twice. A kid usually only has to burn his hand on a hot stove once before he realizes that putting a hand on a hot stove means pain. But if the child never experiences the pain of that experience , he has no reason to put 2 and 2 together. I mean sure you could TELL him, but his obedience depends on the child's obedience.

There are plenty of ways that welfare does the exact same thing. Because there is a minimum that you'll have no matter what, no one really has to experience the results of their bad choices. A teenage mother will never have to go hungry for not having the ability to wait until marriage to have sex. So she (and the younger generation watching her) never figure out that having sex at 15 is a bad thing. Same with drugs -- no one will be unable to buy food because he got fired for drug use. The welfare system will make sure of that. So no one has those cautionary experiences that tell them that doing drugs is bad. Or the same again with the high school drop outs. It's not like you'll miss a meal or lose out on recreational opportunities because you're functionally illiterate, so there's very little keeping a kid in school.

That's the thing, in most cases as the government begins to support the people "victimized" by a social vice, that social vice becomes much more common and much more respectable. Teenage pregnancy is common today under a welfare state that pays for the upkeep of those children and their mother while it was fairly rare a century ago when no such programs existed. Go down the list, and you'll find much the same -- as the government lifts the burden caused by a social vice, the social vice becomes more common and more accepted.