Does Gravity effect time

Discussion in 'Science' started by Doc Dred, Feb 19, 2014.

  1. Doc Dred

    Doc Dred Banned

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    is the reason for time curving in on itself and becoming a circle due to gravity.
     
  2. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Gravity effects Space-Time as you cannot have one without the other.

    Gravity is generated by any Hadrons containing the Higgs-Boson....the Quantum Particle/Wave Form responsible for allowing Hadrons to obtain Mass.

    Gravity is an EXPRESSION OF ONE DIMENSIONALITY as Gravity warps space-time in a one dimensional fashion.

    There is all sorts of things you can look into in Special Relativity and General Relativity concerning this topic.

    AboveAlpha
     
  3. Panzerkampfwagen

    Panzerkampfwagen New Member

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    GPS has to take it into account or it'd be out by many km.
     
  4. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Yep....that is the effect of Time Dilation.

    Time passes at different rates within those GPS Satellites relative to the Earth's surface dependent upon the satellites distance and velocity.

    AboveAlpha
     
  5. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes, gravity affects time.

    But, no, you shouldn't think about circles, or other shapes, at the same time you're thinking about gravity, because gravity is just 1-dimensional.

    This is the calculation for gravity from the Inverse Square Law of Gravity: GM/r^2

    Where:
    G = Gravitational constant,
    M = mass,
    r^2 = radius squared.​

    There is a separate concept called, center of mass, this is NOT gravity but it's a way to calculate how gravity expresses itself in different geometries. I have seen Math equations, variations of the Inverse Square Law of Gravity, for different shapes: spheres, cubes, circles, polygons, and so on... This is done for fun and profit. I wish I could link you to a list but I can't find the table I saw before...

    What is our space-time system?
    Space-time is basically a table of values for the 3 standard dimensions (x, y, z), plus time (t), plus 6-7 for particle/wave calculations (and one day the number of values could even be expanded for more dimensions if we find and need them) -- all of these values are 1-dimensional.

    As far as this goes, dimensions closer to the Gravity Well of the Center of Mass become denser (packed in tight), likewise, dimensions become less dense where they are farther away from the center of mass. Gravity isn't forcing or pulling anything. It's just warping the dimensions.

    So, why does gravity affect time?
    Time is just another dimension that is being affected by gravity in the same way that our own location is being affected by gravity. All dimensions are being warped depending on the distance from the center of mass (see: r^2, radius squared, in the Inverse Square Law of Gravity).

    Citations:
    (I can't take the credit for this knowledge, here's a shout out to forum poster: AboveAlpha for helping me with my math, HyperPhysics site for the equation for the Inverse Square Law of Gravity, and Wikipedia for many articles) :thumbsup: Thank you all.
     
  6. Alien Traveler

    Alien Traveler New Member

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    Both statements are false.

    We can say that gravity is described by metric tensor; space and time are described by the same tensor. If you are comfortable with covariant second-rank symmetric tensors – go ahead. Otherwise please do not jump to your own conclusions.

    Just information:
    scalar (“one dimensional” value) is described by single parameter.
    4-dimensional vector is described by 4 values.
    4-dimensional tensor (as metric tensor) is described by 16 values.
     
  7. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Okay, First, Gravity stands alone. It's its own 1-dimensional value. Don't even think about tensors, or coordinate systems, or shapes at this point. There is ONLY gravity. Gravity is its own dimension.

    As far as what makes up Gravity, I don't know enough about the subatomic world to better describe gravity to you.

    Second, Yes, as I said about center of gravity being calculated "for different shapes: spheres, cubes, circles, polygons, and so on..." , gravity can be brought in and its expression modified to fit into a coordinate system, like the Cartesian Coordinates we use in Geometry, and in our Space-Time system by what are called tensors. As any 1-dimensional value can be included and transformed by the system it's a part of for the sake of convenience.

    Every dimension is its own 1-dimensional expression. And each dimension deserves its own consideration apart from the group. The fact that we group several (10-11?) 1D-dimensions into a single space-system changes nothing. Gravity stands alone, with its own identity. It's not my intension to state falsehoods...
     
  8. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    I should add that the Gravitational constant, used to calculate an expression of Gravity, includes a unit of measurement for time in seconds, length in meters, and weight in kilograms. So, yes Gravity does express itself involving time...

    G = 6.67384(80) x 10^-11 m^3 kg^-1 s^-2
     
  9. Flintc

    Flintc New Member

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    Uh, no. Time in this equation is used to describe a rate of acceleration. The same equation can be used to desribe the acceleration of a car.

    Consider an object approaching the event horizon of a black hole. From the the viewpoint of the object, it just keeps falling. But from our perspecrive, as the object approaches the event horizon it slow down. Let's say you spent a couple of days very near Roche's Limit, where tidal forces would tear you apart, and then some high technology rescued you and pulled you out. It's possible that centuries passed in the greater universe during your few days.

    Anyway. Einstein's equations say that gravity and time are related.
     
  10. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Wga....I hate to be the one to bring this up after you posted such a detailed reply.....but as far as the whole...CIRCLE thing.....there is a correlation to why Gravity will create spheroid celestial bodies.

    AboveAlpha....just causing trouble...remember the more you know....the more you find out how much you DON'T know.
     
  11. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Oh well, I guess I need to learn more physics stuff because I don't have enough information to comment further... :rolleyes:

    I can't dive deeper into the physics formulas right now... I'm running a math heavy learning project for myself and my brain is on the fritz and can't take anymore math stuff right now.


    Oh, wait! I remember something, I started a topic about Time Dilation a while ago, and I still have some attachments in my profile. I'm going to post some of the stuff I did before, because I think Trigonometry is involved in the time dilation calculation...

    Here is what I thought about way back then. I don't remember what aspect I was trying to comment on. But I thought there were 3 important aspects of the Time Dilation equation.
    Relativity 2.png

    Here's one I drew up and filled in for the speed of light in a vacuum.
    Relativity 3.png
     
  12. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Have patience my young Padawan....LOL!!!

    I will soon get back to our lessons.

    Yogurt has taught you well! LOL!!

    AboveAlpha
     
  13. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Humanity is on the edge of understanding some EXTRAORDINARY things.

    The problem has been so far has been US!

    Human's simply may not as yet EVOLVED to the level necessary of being capable of developing and understand a Unified Field Theory which if we could create and understand would end WAR, STARVATION, ENERGY ISSUES, RESOURCE ISSUES....and we could be capable of Folding Space-Time and travel the Universe or even perhaps the Multiverse to a point.

    WAR....has ALWAYS been about POWER and what makes a person powerful? The ability to control resources and WHAT IS CONTROL?

    IF ONE CAN DESTROY A THING ONE CAN CONTROL A THING AND ALL THINGS RELATED TO THAT THING THAT CAN BE DESTROYED.

    As well.

    IF ONE CAN CREATE A THING THAT WOULD ALLOW ALL TO CREATE ANYTHING ONE CAN CREATE TRUE FREEDOM FROM BEING CONTROLLED OR DESTROYED.

    The UFT.....Unified Field Theory once developed and understood will propel MANKIND to unimaginable levels of capability.

    Levels of Capability that even the ancient religious books and texts that detail what a GOD is never described or even had the ability to dream.

    Once all wants and needs can be fulfilled....FOR EVERYONE.....then such things as Money, Corruption, Greed, Power....well....they can no longer exist.

    All that would remain is those afflicted with certain Psychological and Genetic propensities for violence....and even that can be fixed....but NEVER CAN IT BE REMOVED FROM THE HUMAN RACE....as it is a driving engine that makes Human's strive for more.

    We are coming to a point in time....SOON....where there exists a turning point for Humanity and we need to study this to learn and KNOW....EXACTLY how many degrees to turn in any one direction and when to turn again and make course corrections.

    Because of what I sometimes do....I KNOW just how CLOSE we are to this Turning Point....we are VERY CLOSE.

    There are many here who think we are moving too fast too soon and some would wish to FORCE the Human Race to turn around and go back to simpler times....but simpler for exactly WHO?

    How many members here can recall someone saying....The 1950"s were a better time and people didn't lock their doors and you could count on your next door neighbor to collect your mail when you went on vacation.

    But....what they fail to mention is that was true in the 1950's if you were WHITE....and had a JOB....and owned a HOME....so what was better about the 1950's if you were Black or Hispanic or other minority being forced to use segregated bathrooms and sit at the back of the bus?

    In 10 to 17 years.....EVERYTHING WILL CHANGE....and remember I said this.

    The thing is....IT HAS ALREADY CHANGED.....people just don't know about it yet.

    AboveAlpha
     
  14. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    I was having my doubts about that! :rolleyes:

    That's why I started my own math learning project... Like I mentioned in the above post.

    I took out my Community College catalog and looked at all of the Physics courses, which isn't much because it's a 2-year school, so just introductory stuff... But I read all of the Prerequisites and bullet pointed all of the Math and Physics topics that would be brought up in those courses.

    Starting with a ground-up review, (if I have the dedication), I might be finished by the end of the year. Assuming nothing comes up to interrupt me, which I know that it will, but I'm going to try anyway. This will let me compress several semesters worth of stuff into a single year so I can study it on my own time, I hope! :rolleyes:

    And I mean the very ground up, like how sometimes it's a good idea to review what I already know before starting into something new.
    1. Pre-Algebra,
    2. Algebra,
    3. Pre-Calculus,
    4. Calculus,
    5. Calculus with Geometry,
    6. Physics stuff,
    7. more and more Calculus with Geometry,
    8. and also more and more Physics stuff,
    9. and somewhere in the middle: Differential Equations.

    I have a very logic-centered brain and I'm not afraid to do really hard work to learn this stuff... :cool:
     
  15. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    It is ALWAYS good to have a good amount of knowledge in Math as a foundation but remember EINSTEIN SUCKED AT MATH....and look what he accomplished?

    Still....now that I remember the REASON you and I were having classes was BECAUSE you wanted me to post the math and I told you even if I did it would just be all Swahili to you....and I was right then and I am right now....but for you to take on THIS MUCH MATH....and believe me the stuff you wanted to learn makes learning advanced Calculus seem like learning how to ride a tricycle compared with learning how to ride a Unicycle! LOL!!!

    So....even though learning the math is a good start....taking time to attempt to UNDERSTAND THE MULTIDIMENSIONAL ASPECTS of our Universal Space-Time and how each individual Dimension is simply a GEOMETRIC CONSIDERATION and each expresses themselves in the form of a NATURAL LAW OF THE UNIVERSE....in the way 1-D expresses itself as Gravity.

    Got that?

    AboveAlpha
     
  16. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    I can't find this now, but I read a news article in the past decade, sometime, that intellectuals and academics are quietly leaving Western countries. I wish I could find this article again because it told where they were going... Not to give aid or education to the third world, no, but just to LEAVE and live in isolated self-contained communities.

    Now if there is some truth to this, I think this is a sign that there is going to be a dark age coming in the west soon... Brain Drain! :rolleyes:

    This gets to me, because I had a dream, or rather a nightmare, that America is going to decay in the future, and be abandoned to the stupid and ignorant... Because America, and the rest of the West, is too emotional and politically chaotic now to be a base of operations for the people controlling the UFT.

    The powers that be are going to take that power and run! Forsake the USA once the need for its large support base is obsolete and no longer needed... Now no such person/persons would be able to hold their own against the military of the USA, at first... But, what if it's the US military to be the ones to cut and run? :omfg:

    They're the ones running the secret projects and they may have the final say in the end. The world will not be pretty if I think what's going to happen DOES happen. :rolleyes:
     
  17. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    A person has more to worry about as far as a Ultra-Left or Ultra-Right winger than they have to worry about the U.S. Military or people like me.

    Anytime you hear someone professing that THEY AND THEIR GROUP....know what is BEST FOR YOU....THOSE are the people to worry about.

    AboveAlpha
     
  18. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    If not crunching numbers, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be doing to understand this stuff as you say... :rolleyes:

    Okay, here's the thing. I can know OF the multidimensional states, read them in a list on Wikipedia... As for understanding ABOUT them... That's why people go to school for years to not just learn but understand the full depths of a specific field of Physics (just like in any field of study).

    There really is not a shortcut to understand them without exploring the quirks and rules of each one. The math. That's how we talk about the expression of the Natural Laws of the Universe.

    It's geometry... I can create any of these on paper, in a data table... Model them on my computer... But I didn't look them up yet.

    So, actually, let's be clear, is Gravity the only dimension expressed 1D, as you said: "1-D expresses itself as Gravity". That Gravity IS "the" 1-dimension... But other dimensions are their own thing?
     
  19. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Ahh...no....Gravity is an EXPRESSION of 1-D....as true 1-D Universe has no other dimensionality.

    AboveAlpha
     
  20. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Argh, I'm sorry. I'm trying to ask you something and failing terribly. The communications center in my brain is on the overload fritz from being cannibalized so I can study math all day... :bookdiva:

    I want to know if other dimensions (not gravity), THEY, are also 1D? Even the exotic ones for wave functions?

    Maybe I shouldn't even be looking at this yet until tomorrow.
     
  21. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    I need to do a better job explaining.

    AboveAlpha
     
  22. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Maybe? :rolleyes:

    No that's okay. You're doing fine.

    It's my fault. I shouldn't even be thinking about the math at this point. I should have remembered that. Except, before, you were telling me about Multiversal theory, and here we seem to be diving into dimensional states of Gravity and Time.

    Which is fine, because I always have questions about the dimensions we exist in.

    I already know from our previous conversations on Gravity that it's One Dimensional Geometry. It's a single value in 1D, one dimension among several.
     
  23. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    Oh, another thing I wanted to comment about this part. I disagree with this idea. I think you've spent too much time around the military and covert ops stuff... You've been listening to the lies they tell you. :alientwo:

    I just don't buy into that. :wink:

    I know that sometimes people get power and it changes them. But, if that's power I don't want anything to do with that!!! Violence is sickening, in the bad way (for those of you who use modern day slang)!

    Here's a New Idea :new:, violence makes humans strive for less. I shrink away from violence and the only place I'm striving for , under such conditions, is away from there.
     
  24. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    Assuming there is such a thing as "time". Not all physicists agree that there is.
     
  25. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    I agree....violence makes people strive for less....and that is why I am a PROBLEM SOLVER.

    My....JOB.....is to PREVENT VIOLENCE....prevent wars from breaking out....and to find a PEACEFUL SOLUTION!

    When I first started doing this...JOB....it was the early 1980's and my time was devoted to the Cold War....and my JOB was all about MAINTAINING PEACE.

    I met many of my counterparts in both West and East Berlin as I would be a part of the security details for the very limited number of Cultural Exchanges that occurred and I would cross over into East Berlin via the Brandenburg Gate.

    Now...the Stasi...East German Secret Police....did NOT like the KGB at all...as they felt the KGB were stepping on their toes....so imagine being a Police Officer on a case in NYC....and then the FBI comes in and allows you to work a case but is CONSTANTLY watching you and telling you what to do...and imagine being that NYC Cop and imagine that instead of the FBI....it was a 3 Letter Intel. Agency Team FROM ANOTHER COUNTRY telling YOU how to do your JOB in your own City and Country.

    Little things like that were EXPOSED AREAS that a person such as myself would WORK....and use as leverage.

    Thing is...EVERYONE KNEW WHO EVERYONE ELSE WAS!!!

    If they didn't want me in I would not be allowed to get in...and we let THEM IN...to West Berlin....BECAUSE WE KNEW WE HAD TO KEEP THE BACK CHANNELS OPEN AND HAVE SOME FORM OF COMMUNICATION IN CASE SOME IDIOT POLITICIANS MADE IT ALL GO TO S#!%!

    So....we were all about...PEACE.

    AboveAlpha
     

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