Does minimum wage hike cost us jobs?

i said that because most citizens feel we have an advantage but we don't. they needed to read this.

 

Well...the US markets remain very popular and we have a pretty stable business environment but beyond this we're competing with the rest of the world. Lots of foreign ventures in the US and lots of US ventures around the world. I'd really like to see the US grow exports to serve the 7 billion consumers located outside of the USA...

 

I get it. I'm not trying to argue or even dispute wht you said. But the fact that we aren't the end all for everyone is something most Americans don't understand. In order to be we have to work our tails off. That's all I'm saying. We have to empower folks with the right info for them to get fired up sometimes.

 

That is just a bunch of hyperbolic hysteria, typical.

Of course an overnight rise in the minimum wage to $50 an hour would cause an economic catastrophe but raising the minimum wage to $15-20 over a few years is nothing at all like that and that is all I want.

The economic reality is that the US economy could easily deal with raising the minimum wage without increasing prices by more than a small fraction because worker productivity has outpaced wage growth for decades. Some entrenched low end businesses might have raise prices, get by on reduced profit margins and actually make some investment in their business to increase productivity but on the other hand even slightly higher prices in these low end markets will allow new competitors to enter the market, creating competition that tends to keep prices close to the margin.

Personally, I would gladly pay another dollar for a happy meal if I knew the person handing it to me did not need my tax dollars to get by.

As you said, businesses don't force anyone to subsidize their business, it is the government that decides that. If the government decides to get out of the subsidy business all the businesses whose business model is dependent on subsidies would be in trouble, no doubt about it, but it would also remove a big chunk of pernicious government interference from the labour market, making the markets more free.

Maybe you would prefer that the government just remove all subsidies, eliminate the minimum wage and let the market decide. The problem with that is that a lot of people who have jobs might end up homeless and begging on the streets or they would just refuse to work at starvation wages. Economic studies indicate that there is a wage level at which there will be no job takers regardless of minimum wage laws and any other economic situation, they call this the minimum acceptable wage. In the US it has been estimated that government subsidies are the only reason that people accept the current minimum wage and have calculated an unsubsidised minimum acceptable wage of $12-22 an hour depending on location.

A $15 minimum wage makes far more economic sense than continuing the idiotic burden of taxpayer subsidies.

 

I think most people fully understand what is needed to have a decent life, from education, to personal health, to self-esteem, etc. but most are too lazy to get themselves out of their rut. Our inactions make us appear stupid, but unless we have clinical mental/physical limitations to learning, we're just being lazy. IMO the biggest gain in moving forward in society can come from a better understanding why we're becoming so lazy...

 

Hollow words are meaningless to me. My comments are usually calculated and are not 'hyperbolic hysteria'.

I never said 'overnight'? I said no matter what you increase the minimum wage to, those earning minimum wage will still be on the lowest economic rungs of society and will have the identical problems they have today.

Contrary to your opinion that 'the US economy can easily deal with raising the minimum wage', all business costs plus profits and taxes are passed onto the consumer in the cost of goods and services. If you increase the cost of labor, then the cost of goods and services increases...period.

Repeat; people earning minimum wage and having minimum wage issues at $7.25/hour will have the same issues when they are making $15/hour. Why would anyone make a minimum wage job their career?

I don't care if government gives every American worker $10K per year as long as the taxpayers agree to fund the government program.

Raising the minimum wage to $15/hour won't decrease government support programs...

 

This is categorically not true. Increased wages at the low end will improve those people's standard of living. It will not raise it to middle class level but it will raise it from where it is. They may still be at the bottom but the bottom will be raised.

What is that old trope of the zillionaire elite?
A rising tide lifts all boats?

This is also not true since it has never been observed in the actual real world economy that businesses are able to raise prices every time their costs increase. It is quite common across many economic sectors for prices to remain stable even as costs rise.

Competition in the marketplace is the reason. Costs can rise for all businesses but if one does not raise its prices the others cannot or they will lose market share. This was starkly illustrated in the air transport sector where some airline or another would announce a fare increase but then quickly rescind it when other airlines announce that they will not raise their fares.

Of you are stuck in a minimum wage job it becomes a career by default because at that wage the you cannot even afford bare subsistence and must spend all your spare time walking to the food bank and the welfare office and the various charities for help. There is no money or time for anything else.

It has been estimated that raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour in just 10 states would reduce the number who apply for food assistance by 10 million people. A minimum wage of $15 an hour would allow 5 million more people to afford car ownership and another 5 million to afford transit passes, increasing their mobility, their educational opportunities and their employment prospects.

I would rather that the entire economy not be in the position where anyone with a full time job requires government assistance. That would be an important first step towards a true free market economy, which is my goal.

 

The median wage in the US is about $35K which is about $16.80/hour. This means about 1/2 or 75 million US workers earn $16.80/hour or less. Somehow you believe you can force the MW to $15/hour, which is only $1.80/hour less than what 75 million Americans are earning, without also increasing the pay for 75+ million US workers? If you increase $7.25/hour to $15/hour then you must also increase those currently earning $15/hour to $25-$30/hour and so on through the entire wage scale. When the dust settles all you have accomplished is inflation, a less competitive US workforce, and those earning minimum wage today will be earning minimum wage tomorrow!

You are micro-thinking if you don't believe increasing business costs don't also increase prices of goods and services. Why do you think the cost of your foods are increasing all the time...because the cost of business is increasing.

As you force business costs to increase, business will find a way to deal with this or they will close the doors. They will reduce work hours, outsource, automate, move facilities, etc. to remain competitive and profitable. It is REQUIRED that business costs be less than income in order to sustain profits!

Why would anyone keep a minimum wage job their entire career?

A FREE MARKET ECONOMY is one in which government does not meddle...

 

When the dust settles US workers will have recovered the wages they deserve for their productivity. The ones who will suffer will be top management, which has been stealing the wages of their workers and fleecing shareholders for decades in order to increase what they get paid. Top management compensation accounts for 30-40% of all employment expenses in many companies. Forty years ago it was 10% or less.

Any company with a sane board of directors would move to maintain the same level of employee compensation expense and could easily do so by simply reining in top management compensation. Because all companies would be in the same boat, it would be a wholesale move across the economy. Shareholders would rejoice and exercise their power to remove the recalcitrant thieving management they have longed to get rid of. This is not a trivial thing, outsized management compensation sucking up productivity gains and eating into profits has been a huge concern among shareholders for quite some time but there has been little opportunity for them to do something about it. This will give them that opportunity.

A free market economy is one in which information is transparent and all other factors are equal for all market participants. The government can do whatever it wants and as long as it effects all market participants equally the market remains as free as it was before. The biggest impediment to the free market today is the lack of timely information and that has almost nothing to do with government.

 

No one is 'stealing wages'??

No one is 'fleecing shareholders'??

Job pay is primarily determined by supply and demand...how many people do you know that can manage Microsoft or Google or GM? If you were a shareholder of these companies would you like them to use the least qualified and lowest paid managers? If you were CEO of a US company earning $100K and a French company offered you $2 million/year what would you do? Employee compensation, and yes including CEO's, is complex...and focusing solely on how much different people earn is nothing but a witch-hunt that will never solve any problems...

 

It just goes to show you the economy is weak. MW jobs used to be for kids mostly. The fact that a lot of folks depend on them lets us all know the state of the economy but noone wants to admit it. So now that finally a MW increased is asked for and needed the entire economy would crash if granted. America...wake up.

 

not really, because it adds money to the local economy, thus increasing the profits of local businesses

 

the all the money pools to the 10%, then more money needs to be printed, that leads to inflation and the need to increase min wage

if the rich would trickle down, problem solved... we should of been taxing the rich all along, preventing this

 

If you actually look at what creates 'the economy' you will see it's doing just fine. The economy, on any given day or month or year or decade is what it is and cannot be forced to be something else. Sure government can spend trillions more debt money but this does nothing to effect the 'root' economy. The economy goes up and it goes down and people suck when the economy does not constantly grow and/or provide every individual with whatever it is they desire.

I disagree with you why so many people earn at or near minimum wage over long periods of time. IMO these people generally are not educated, or skilled, or possess good self esteem and communication skills, and are therefore relegated to compete with millions others just like them...which equals downward pressure on wages. Every person in this category can achieve more but they must take personal steps to increase their value in the workplace...

 

Do you think the government should create more debt and simply mail everyone $10,000 or whatever amount to help them be happy?

Inflation does not guarantee an increase in wages.

The rich spend inordinate amounts of their money and you should be happy that we have so many rich people in the USA.

How does taxing the rich change anything for those who can only earn minimum wage?

 

I would normally agree. But there are parts of the country were folks don't have access to good jobs and all that is left is the minimum wage jobs. They don't even have a choice.

 

Everyone has choices! People who live in areas which don't provide higher skilled labor also live in areas in which the cost of living is quite low. If someone truly does not like their earning potential in Mayberry RFD then they must relocate to other higher employment areas. But, they must also compete with more workers and to truly advance they must acquire more applicable education and skills. There are lots of choices for everyone...but...everyone needs to put forth some personal effort...

 

You seem to believe that everyone is a potential genius who just needs the motivation of abject poverty to get going. That would be nice but it is also a psychopathic meme that has persisted for centuries.

The reality is that many people are just not that smart and there is nothing that can be done to fix them. You would subject every one of them to being unfairly abused by poverty wages because you have conveniently adopted a position that denies they exist at all, that people stuck in low wage jobs because they do not have the capacity to improve themselves are really just brilliant people lacking the proper motivation. It is this demented meme that has long been used to justify the threat of homelessness and starvation as a means to motivate people to work for less than liveable wages.

That is a really appalling perspective to hold in this 21st century. In fact it is a perspective formed in the late 18th century to justify the abuse of peasants turfed off their ancestral lands and into wage labour in the beginnings of the industrial revolution, which could not be excused even then despite the gross ignorance of the time.

 

In bold above if this is what you think I implied then you need to re-read my posts and do some thinking.

It is very rare for a human to be considered 'genius' so your use of the word, and interpretation of my words, is really off-base.

Your use of the word 'psychopathic' seems off-base as well since 'psychopath' generally means suffering from chronic mental disorders accompanied with abnormal or violent social behavior' all of which was not displayed nor implied in my post.

I've never implied that 'people need to be fixed'? All I ever say is people have potential and it is 100% up to each person to take actions and achieve whatever their potential might be. If a person desires more of anything, it IS NOT government's job or society's job to provide it for them!

Wages are primarily determined by supply and demand so there is no conspiracy to have 'people work for less than livable wages'?? If a person does not like their wage, then ONLY that person needs to take steps to achieve more of whatever it is they need...keeping in mind they have limitations which determine the outcome.

My position on all of this political crap is if people want more, then that person must take personal steps to achieve more...they cannot depend on their governments to do this for them. You call this 'appalling' while I call it common sense...

 

Now that you said it like that it does make sense. I think a lot of folks want things to happen where they are at but that's not always possible. You have to go where the action is.

 

Then there should be no such thing as a minimum wage, because this is government meddling, telling an employer how much he has to pay his employees.

 

The problem is not wages. The problem is skills. Our population is woefully unskilled.
The misconception is the money is wealth when in fact wealth is labor. The more skilled the labor, the wealthier the economy. We are not loosing prosperity because of wages, we are losing prosperity because we are unskilled.

 

The only debate I see is in the political and media realm.
I've been a business owner with employees for over 22 years now.

Here are the simple facts.

No matter where the increase in the cost of doing business comes from, whether it's product cost, labor, taxes or regulations.
The increased cost must be passed on to the consumer.

1. Either the business passes on theses added costs and remains running.
2. The business reduces it's labor cost by cutting hours or reducing employees.
3. Becomes insolvent and closes down.

Simple as that.

 

Every person must choose what they want in life, and depending on what they want, it might require some personal actions from them. These actions can involve all aspects of our lives but the one common denominator is that ALL actions must be initiated by the individual...not by the government or society. Those who depend on 'others' to solve their problems will forever be left wanting. I'm sure most Americans, and yes this includes the wealthy, desire that everyone achieve what they desire, however, the individual must put forth the bulk of the effort! This is not a novel idea...it's how I was raised but things seem to be different today...

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I agree...I'm against the minimum wage. Let workers decide what they will work for and not have government meddling where it's not necessary...

 

The "economy" is not doing fine. It is being sold down the river in order to enrichen a few people at the expense of the many. The cornerstone of any economy is manufacturing because manufactured goods bring external income. A service based economy is a zero sum gain.
In addition, our laws and regulations stifle small business and put a choke on innovation and the feeling of ownership that people once had in the economy and their own destiny.