Does the Military-Industrial Complex want war with Russia?

Do you think the military-industrial complex will be looking to get the USA into the war in Ukraine more actively?

The Russian military has been exposed as weak, but despite this, as it must be painfully obvious by now from the lack of news stories of progress there, the Ukrainian offensive to retake parts of Ukraine now annexed by Russia has failed to make any meaningful or actual progress in any way.

Russia is in a quagmire, but so is Ukraine. So basically a stalemate. At this point, it would be best to let diplomacy come into play and provide a lifeline for Ukraine and Russia to both get out of this mess.

But what about the military-industrial complex? They must be itching to get us into a fight with Russia, and this latest conflict has been the closest we've ever come to actively and legally being able to engage in a war with Russia. One mistake would be all they need to push us over the edge into actual conflict with Russia.

I think the military-industrial complex wants this. Badly. But do you think they might want to commit a false flag attack to provide an excuse? What would the military-industrial complex do to get us into a war with Russia?

 

Nuclear war? No. That means the loss of all profitable items. Conventional war, yes. If it can be done through a way that makes a profit.

 

Yeah... and the American military industrial complex started WWII... it had nothing to do with Pearl Harbor. I believe its absolutely absurd to make such silly allegations. We have enemies that want to conquer us. Is the MIC more of a threat than Putin who is murdering civilians left and right by the thousands? WE HAVE FOREIGN ENEMIES THAT WANT US DEAD... or at least as slaves. Wake up folks! While you are putzing around with anti-American left wing BS... we have REAL ENEMIES THREATENING US.

My take on Ukraine goes like this... Russia and China have become teammates. China is helping Russia stay afloat by buying its goods, including lots of oil. China and Russia have just completed joint naval exercises in the waters off Alaska.

The Russian military has been totally inept in its conduct of the war in Ukraine. They have gained minimal ground. They have failed to gain air superiority. Even Moscow has been attacked. Their tactics fail, their morale is low... its a mess. They are no threat to NATO at all. So what are they doing?

They are using up the west's stores of weaponry and other assets to pave the way for an easier conquest of Taiwan and maybe even South Korea and parts of Japan.

There's one helluva lot more at stake here than stock prices. Money always plays a part. I'm not saying it doesn't. But this is bigger. Its about the SURVIVAL OF NATIONS.

There's all sorts of speculation about Henry Ford and other industrial giants cooperating with Hitler in the days before Germany went to war. But the bottom line is that all became anecdotal when Germany swallowed Poland, France, Belgium, Denmark, Norway, Holland, and huge swaths of Russia.

Well here we go again, only the opposition doesn't speak German this time with helpers that speak Italian, the enemy speaks Mandarin and has helpers that speak Russian.

 

Most left wingers who babble ignorant nonsense about 'Duh Military Industrial Complex N Stuff' are just parrots, and don't know what they're talking about, but they think making noises about it will make others think they're having Deep Thoughts. 'Military Industrial Complexes' have existed since the first rock was thrown and the first stick was sharpened, and exist in every tribe and nation that has managed to survive any length of time, and only the really stupid peddle the crazy notion that some unilateral disarmament insanity by the U.S. will suddenly bring about 'World Peace'. All that would do is create the biggest world war in history.

 

I would stay the current status quo, where the US buys billions of military equipment for Ukraine, which gets promptly incinerated upon contact on the battlefield, requiring more equipment, is far more preferable than an actual war with Russia.

However some of our politicians are simply B--S--- crazy. Lindsay Graham would have us in a hot war with Russia in a heartbeat. So the danger of war is there, however the military industrial complex would probably prefer things to go along as they are, at least until the generation of Ukrainians that can fight are decimated, then it will be off to the next war.

 

That point has almost been reached. The 'recruits' for the UAF, the army
of western and central Ukraine mainly, get between 2 days and 3 weeks
of training and then function 2 or 3 days in the battle before being invalided
out or buried. They are rapidly running out of living bodies.

Maybe the US will allow them to make peace or maybe they will ignore the
US and make peace anyway like they should have the previous time
Russia and Ukraine agreed terms of peace at the end of March 2022.

 

They can surrender, make peace, or do anything they want. They are a sovereign and independent nation. To suggest that America "allows" nations to be nations is the foulest and most hateful form of anti-American prejudice and propaganda.

 

How bout Syria? They made a brutal and unprovoked attack on a peaceful village
<insert name of village> and it was murderous, isn't that adequate justification for war?

 

Nations are not a uniform category, nor even are 'sovereign nations'.
In the case of Ukraine it appears the mind of the 'sovereign nation'
was just Zelensky and his cabal.

What happened and you could easily check it, was Russian and Ukrainian
delegates had reached the 7th draft of a peace treaty, but Biden told
Zelensky not to ratify it and on Apr 9th 2022 the British Prime minister traveled
to Kyiv to warn Zelensky that he must continue fighting if he wanted
to be a member of NATO.

 

For me? No. I wouldn't see that situation as in America's security interests.

For the gang selling, and buying weapons, probably. They'll create a hashtag and the usual suspects on this forum will be clamoring to "do something!"

 

True, but Ukraine is not in America's security interests, it is way over on the other side of the world,
but yes, it has made a fortune for the weapons makers.

And yes for the hashtag; as soon as the US goes to war the war is a smash hit in the popularity ratings.

 

Biden has no authority to order Zalensky to do anything. Like the British Prime Minister... he can only ADVISE.

 

How about the U.S. honor its defense agreements and stop pandering to gangsters like Putin? Ah, but no, that's too old school.

 

Right. They caused Germany to invade Poland, Italy to invade Ethiopia, and Japan to invade China.

 

And exactly what "defense agreement" applies here? Ukraine actually has none with the US or NATO.

Although, ironically they had two of them with Russia. That is what I find particularly hilarious about Russia in the modern era. Every country they have invaded in the last 3 decades they have actually had a defense treaty with. And promised to come to their defense if they were ever attacked.

 

Via our role in the UN and via an assurance agreement with Ukraine separately.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

But of course many nowadays have all kinds of excuses to weasel out of such agreements, so go ahead and play some semantics game; most others do while channeling Jane Fonda and hippie land fantasies re Russian imperialism. It's not like we have much credibility left with allies or our word means anything after Obama and Biden's foreign policy disasters and now the GOP's sudden 1960's Anti-War Moment.

 

Uh, Russia is part of the UN also, or have you forgotten that?

Oh, and I find it hilarious that you bring up the Budapest Memorandum. Which is actually one of the very treaties I was talking about. Where in agreement for Ukraine, Belarus, and other nations turning over any nuclear weapons they might have had and joining the NPT Russia along with the US and UK would agree to bring to the UN Security Council any acts of aggression against them. And that the US, UK, and Russia promised to never use nuclear weapons against them.

Wait, you mean that agreement? Where Russia promised to not attack them, and defend them if they were attacked? And promised to never use nuclear weapons against them? And yet, somehow you are trying to claim that is a "defense agreement"? Holy cow, you really are simply making things up here, and relying on the fact that others in here can not look up the facts and call you on your bullshit.

Or have you forgotten that Russia was a party of that agreement? Or that it was involving not just Ukraine, but Belarus and Kazakhstan as well?

I have to admit, when you fail you sure fail big.

 

Have some more breakfast beers and dream up some more strawmen. lol

 

Only when a Republican is in office, apparently. Otherwise the Right turns into Jane Fonda cultists, same as they did WW I and WW II. I guess they know it looks bad when Democrats win their wars for them and it makes them cry or something.

If Biden somehow does the right thing and backs Ukraine the right way, then later the GOP propagandists will claim credit for it and blather on about being 'pro-military n stuff' and what a great job they did. lol

 

I divide politicians into pro war and anti war.
Nearly all are pro war because the
Military Industrial Congressional Complex bribes
them (lobbies them) to be, although the
US public seesaws somewhere in the middle,

The public is usually against starting a war unless
the media stirs them up and also when the media
says we are standing proud trashing the enemy...
If it all appears to be working out the public is in
favor of war, and doesn't want to hear anything
except 'we are winning' in various different words.

There are two Presidential candidates in favor of peace,
RFKjr and Donald Trump.
People who want everything divided up into Republican
vs Democrat are going to maybe have to think.

 

You are the one that brought up the Budapest Memorandum. So are you now rejecting it because it does not apply?

God, you all are so damned predictable. Challenge your silly claims with logic and reason, and you become so butt hurt and offensive.

 

Every few weeks someone posts on this forum is that the Budapest Memorandum is some sort of mutual defense treaty with Ukraine. There should be a permanent debunking thread for that pinned to the top of this section because it sure gets claimed a lot.

 

It is because they are trying to push a false narrative. Along with completely ignoring the 1997 Russian-Ukrainian Friendship Treaty, or the establishment and charter of the Commonwealth of Independent States. Which actually was a defense agreement where Russia promised to come to the aid of any member nation that was attacked. Which I find particularly funny, as the only nation to ever attack a member of the CIS was Russia itself.

Which is a main reason why once it was fully chartered and ratified in 1994, not a single other nation ever joined them. However, three of the founding members (Ukraine, Moldovia, and Georgia) withdrew.

The real problem Russia has is that it simply refuses to recognize it is not the USSR anymore, and the nations it forced to follow them no longer had to do whatever they wanted. And the harder they try to force nations that were once aligned to them to do what they want, the more they push them to NATO. If they had actually held to the ideals they had promised with the CIS, it would not be the utter joke that it is today and might have actually gained more members in the last three decades.

 

Unfortunately for you, it also brings up the side agreements, which of course make your infantile attempts at 'Gotcha' look like the work of a loon.

 

Nobody said it was a Treaty, Have any more fake claims, or will you just continue to babble dishonest nonsense like your brother Mushroom?