Encryption vs. Security

Discussion in 'Computers & Tech' started by waltky, Feb 17, 2016.

  1. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    Apple phone ruling reignites privacy versus law enforcement debate...
    :omg:
    Privacy versus security at heart of Apple phone decrypt order
    17 Feb.`16 - A court order demanding that Apple Inc help the U.S. government break into the iPhone of one of the San Bernardino shooters opens a new chapter in the legal, political and technological fight pitting law enforcement against civil liberties advocates and major tech companies.
     
  2. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

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    Apple will not win against the U.S. government. The next time they go to court and a judge imposes a fine of 500 million dollars a day on Apple, Apple will see the light.
     
  3. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    apple does not have the ability to do it, they would have to invent some new technology

    the court can' fine someone 500 million a day until they invent something that has never been invented before

    heck, lets fine pharmaceuticals 500 million a day until they find a cure to cancer while we are at it

    .
     
  4. JoakimFlorence

    JoakimFlorence Banned

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    The question that can be asked is, if law enforcement did have open access to all iPhones, would it really make the country more secure? I mean, wouldn't terrorists just use some other method of communication? And can iPhones somehow give terrorists some special advantage that other forms of communication do not?

    Just suppose, hypothetically, that iPhones had no encryption. In fact, police did not even need the actual phone itself to be able to hack into it. Even if this was the case, there are still all sorts of potential ways terrorists could be able to circumvent the surveillance, drastically minimizing the utility of police having access to the iPhone information.

    Proponents of security taking precedence over privacy concerns seem to be under the mistaken assumption that having access to iPhone information is somehow likely give the government a "big break" and stop terrorism.

    Let me pose the situation to you this way: Would we be comfortable if new laws were passed mandating that every new TV being sold had to have a microphone so law enforcement could listen in whenever they wanted? Maybe it might stop some crime from happening, or help the police catch the bad guys!
     
  5. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

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    You don't know the power of the government. It's the same government that allows the terrorists into our country and also refuses to secure our southern border. Trump is right, we are ruled by stupid people.
     
  6. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    4 to the 4th power number of combinations...
    :confusion:
    How an Apple Passcode Has Foiled the FBI
    Feb 18, 2016 - Four numbers hardly seem like a foolproof way to protect a smartphone.
     
  7. DivineComedy

    DivineComedy Well-Known Member

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    And if they can do it, someone else can. Why do they want the Chinese to be able to steal Hillary’s phone and get all our secrets?

    The best way to crack ISIS phones is to carpet bomb their cities so all their phones are cracked and the users dead, that will get 99.9% of them.

    Shouldn’t we encourage our people (citizens, police, FBI, spies) having secure data?

    Isn’t the biggest problem bad guys getting our data?
     
  8. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No the bigger problem is the bad guys like ISIS being able to hack into our banking apps and stealing money electronically and using that money to fund terrorism. Given the improbability of this being successful in time to even stop another attack by radicalized people they may have encountered combined with the likelihood that there is nothing of value to begin with on that phone plus the cost plus the risk to others, this was one of he worst decisions ever by a court in modern times, especially since Apple wasn't even able to participate in the hearing. It was as if the judge had an agenda that required her to be willfully ignorant on the official record. If I were planning a terrorist attack, I sure as hell wouldn't do it on a work phone in an age in which employers can and do install hidden apps before they hand it to you that allow them to spy on the employees.
     
  9. Hotdogr

    Hotdogr Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Apple should work with the FBI to CLONE this phone so that they may make as many attempts as necessary to guess the pin without risking the original device.
     
  10. DivineComedy

    DivineComedy Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know much about hacking, but I don’t understand how they hack an app on a device that Apple refuses to have any scripting language or compiling language on with any kind of system access. It seems the weak link is the computer at the bank, and our computer, and not our app.

    I still have a live CD with a working toolchain for DS-Linux, but if they don’t want it on the 3DS, they can stop most of the homebrew. Might have been able to put a Linux desktop on the 3DS, if they didn’t go hostile.

    A gaming system with homebrew is way cool, a device like an IPad or IPhone, not so much.

    https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/rubyi-run-code-autocomplete/id581732143?mt=8

    There are limits to what you can do with that.

    Apple seems really hostile to homebrew. It is the appeal of the device, that it is less hackable, but their fear of programming languages on say the IPad, tend to say there are things a programming language on it could do that scare them. Maybe some parts are not that secure.

    https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=champion.gnuroot&hl=en

    That works on the Kindle Fire, but you need a phone.

    If most of the core system is in rom, where all the stuff or access of the password should be, then I would guess updates only for appearance and tweaks of the interface are possible. Apple may not be able to hack it. And if Apple can hack it, so can the Chinese. I am not so sure there is any benefit to opening up our stuff to Chinese hackers, but if they make the chips there and install the stuff in them there, they may already have access. Maybe the FBI is calling the wrong people?
     
  11. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They should be able to get whatever they want from the carrier on the phone and then use it to serve warrants on places like google or whomever and avoid this nonsense altogether. Photos and notes are the best they can get this way that they cannot get other ways, and since they did not have the phone with them and destroyed the phones they did have with them as well as their computers, then I do not see that there is a high probability they will close in on the unaccounted for 16 minutes the day of the attack, or their planning of it. They already know who helped them get the ammo. Not even letting Apple participate in the hearing is very suspect as to what their true intentions are here.
     
  12. DivineComedy

    DivineComedy Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, weird, maybe in the process of disclosure, they figure out whether the Chinese have swapped parts, if the password program part is in rom. If we don’t make it and assemble it, they could bring everything down; say “long view,” chip gets time (something preset), stops on future date for sneak attack, or on first connection after that date sends China all of Clinton’s…emails…GPS coordinates…cut off the head of the Soviet chicken sort of speak.

    http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/28/technology/china-fake-iphone-factory/

    They could just want to steal it for some gubermint approved Obama phone, you know, disclosure, make those Clinton phones have a better wiper.
     
  13. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    Terrorists using Tor?
    :confusion:
    Tor: 'Mystery' spike in hidden addresses
    19 February 2016 - A security expert has noticed an unprecedented spike in the number of hidden addresses on the Tor network.
     
  14. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

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    We all know that this is just a legal ethical problem for the United States. If this were China or North Korea the encryption problem wouldn't be a problem for those states.

    They can just force the companies to release the information under threat of torture, or something.

    There goes any promises about that people can trust encryption to protect them against their own government. The real world doesn't work that way. And the USA was so counting on such security investment to promote rebellion across the world in nations where the USA doesn't like their administration.

    Well the USA can't have it both ways. Well I think this is going to come down to what the state wishes to do. That's usually the way.
     
  15. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    Well I think this is going to come down to what the state wishes to do

    It comes down to, which is more important...
    :confusion:
    ... individual privacy...

    ... or the state's right to protect that privacy...

    ... along with protecting all the other rights...

    ... by making sure the society is secure...

    ... and public safety is assured?
    :wink:
     
  16. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    Granny says, "Dat's right - criminals an' terrorists gettin' the upper hand with encryption...
    :grandma:
    US Officials: Cellphone Encryption Thwarting Criminal Investigations
    April 19, 2016 - U.S. law enforcement officials say they are being thwarted in solving dozens of criminal cases because they cannot access incriminating information that suspects have stored in encrypted files on their cellphones equipped with the latest technology.
     
  17. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    It is NOT hacking that is the problem, it is OS vulnerability to attack and modification, once you are online, your OS can be modified by anyone knowledgeable enough to emmulate Microsoft's automatic OS update system, restricting OS updates to user approved certified and verified updates would help rather than allow fraudulent access.
     

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