EU Referendum Debate - Monday

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by tamora, Oct 21, 2011.

  1. spt5

    spt5 New Member

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    But don't data show that it is always the guy that outspends his opponent is the one thatwins? We call them democratic elections, but in reality they are auctions. In Africa, such as in Nigeria, politicians at election campaigns openly bid money for people's votes. At least they are not pretentious.

    Also, no elected parliament in the world would ratify something such as electoral austing that makes its representatives insecure in their positions between elections. Such a parlament would be constantly paralyzed.

    No, I am not scaremongering, I simply tell what your leader, the USA has already done, as a matter of fact. British popular media will not. I think you can't "manage your own labour and social legislation" by practically eliminating the minimum wage, which is what the US does. This only works for the "developing" countries, because they can move their currency exchange rates with it. So you can't follow the Chinese model, and you are forced to choose between the EU model or the US model. The latter one IS the enslavement part.

    Also nobody owns his country, so everyone at the western side of the "fence" should "fret", today country A got dubed so not my problem but that paves the way for country B to get dubed, which paves country C, and eventually mine. This makes all countries mine, including Britain.

    This is because the British workers are too afraid to move and too afraid to learn languages.

    I love Blackadder and all the really great pieces of the history of British comedy, but I am still on the learning curve to fully appreciate its humor.

    Nationalism is the propaganda of the fool. Its basis is that you are a better pion than your neighbor because ... ? Because you speak the language the leading bank wants you to speak, go to the school the richest politicians want you to go to, and fight in the army the masterminds of this whole scheme want you to fight in. Then, even the archaic medieval Vatican dominance over Europe was better, at least they invented a moral code, the Bible, not just a well selling fast talk about you being better at others' expence.

    I agree, the idea of a nation is market differentiation. So an integrational effort goes against its feasibility. The integration result may look like another nation only bigger, but it is different. For example look at the difference between US national identity and the identities of individual US states. Or look at the Chinese national identity and the Chinese state identities before the Xi(?) dynasty that united them. Or, better still, check the French provincial identities today, inherited from theoriginal medieval kindoms and compare them to the French national identity. The EU's supernation will be something as much different asthese are different from each other.

    I can't really disclosethe nameof the company because I may still sleep with theracist brainless (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) that runs half the HR there. It amazes me how you don't need any education or social experience to take people-oriented employment in the UK. (But, nevertheless, I love the UK.)
     
  2. spt5

    spt5 New Member

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    Maybe the bottom line is this. Now that technology has displaced most of human work, the compete-by-working-for-a-living philosophy must lead to mass poverty.

    One good, tried, and tested way of balancing against such technological progress has always been to simply reduce work hours. The last time this happened was the introduction of the 5-day work week, and back those days cities/regions competed within nations.

    Now nations compete within a global environment, so the next reduction of the work week (to 4 days?) will have to be done above the national level, at places such as the EU. Some countries that now fully live in the world trade structure, such as Singapore for example, have already introduced the 4-day work week.
     
  3. tamora

    tamora New Member

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    I never said UK democracy is ideal, and it is true that the biggest spenders here gain the most votes, but a better non-democratic system has not yet been found anywhere. Like I said, it beats EU bureaucracy which can kick sand in our faces without anyone ever having to pay with losing their job or perks.

    And I'm not suggesting people should be able to oust politicians on a moment's notice. Every four or five years in elections would suffice well enough with other checks and balances.

    By what measure is the US our "leader"? How does whatever measure you are thinking of compare with the EU treaties we are bound by? These EU treaties cover everything from trade policies to environment policies, from social policies to economic polices, from justice policies to science and technology polices, agricultural and fisheries policies to food safety policies and more, and they can all be viewed on the European Commission's website for anyone to see. So, the US is our leader because ... And you are scaremongering; independent countries manage their own social and labour legislation and a lot more besides.

    Of course no one owns a country, but the people living in a country should be able to influence the way it is governed to the extent that they can change a government. That is what a national democracy is all about. And haven't you noticed, everyone with a brain on the Western side of the "fence" is fretting very nicely!
    And that's the reason for mass immigration? Whatever the reason, we want a controlled immigration policy that does not involve mass immigration.

    I love Blackadder too. My favourite series is Blackadder Goes Forth which is set in the First World War. Maybe you've seen it. I think it manages to be very funny, whilst at the same time respecting the memories of the men who fought and convey something of the madness of war.

    I haven't based anything on the premise that one country is better than another, so forget your prejudices and think again.

    It is because I do understand what the EU is now and I don't like the direction it's going in that I'm against it. Looking at other national identities has not changed my view.

    In that case I'll take your accusations (and your love for the UK) with a large pinch of salt. :wink:
     

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