Everyone Calls it a Baby When She's Not Having an Abortion

No, but because it is the most logical conclusion.

What about women who go through abortions I do not think you are holding them in much regard in how that might effect them.

 

Someone shot through the head with a shotgun at close range would not suffer either, it still would not make it right to do it though.

 

Why are you deciding what the criteria is for personhood? And why are you not telling us what that criteria is that you decided upon? Please tell us the requirements for personhood?

 

I believe the criteria to be at conception.
That is when our lives began, we develop on from that point to what we are today. You did not exist before conception, but you did at conception, you are the same person you were when you were 17, 5, 1, and in the womb. It is simple logic.

It is people who support abortion that are not very forthcoming about the exact time of personhood.
Now would you be so kind as to tell me what your criteria to being a person is?.

 

But we MUST decide what the criteria is, there is no running away, even you are doing it - You deciced the criterion for personhood is mere biological life.

Mentally hadicaped have a mind. Only braindead humans do not have a mind. And fetuses before 20 weeks.

 

You existed as sperm cell and egg cell.

 

Good I don't believe that is the criteria and neither do I believe the whole "personhood" argument to be in any way germane to the discussion of abortion

 

By 27 weeks it is a baby, no doubt about. Abortionists like to play around with the definition of "baby", but there is no fundamental difference between a human life at 27 weeks and a human life right before the moment of birth.

 

So it's ok to abort before 27 weeks?

 

I didn't say that it was. I just said that, whatever the morality of aborting the fetus before 27 weeks, it is certainly not okay to abort the baby after 27 weeks.

 

lol ok. You seem like you're getting confused about your argument. One minute you say women seeking abortion are irresponsible and this whole situation is just an 'inconvenience' (way to underestimate what women go through during pregnancy and what an insult to mothers everywhere), and the next minute you are saying "Well they better not abort after 27 weeks!"

And that's fine. Upwards of 80% of women abort before week 12 and the majority of the others abort before week 24. There is 1.1% who choose or have to abort in the third trimester if their life is in immediate danger or the fetus will die or is already dead due to a fatal abnormality. I don't know how you can condemn and spitefully tell the 1.1% that they are just irresponsible for bringing a life into the world and then killing it though since the overall majority of them were planning to keep it.

 

I never said it was okay to abort before 27 weeks. I just said it should be obvious to everyone that abortion after this time is wrong. There's no reason for debate, it should be made illegal. Then we can focus the debate on abortions before 27 weeks.

 

It should be obvious at conception…and all abortion is wrong.

 

With due respect….you have no way of knowing how many late term abortions are actually performed…all Gutmaucher can do is to guess. Three high profile late term abortion clinics were closed just last year. These were not women whose lives were in danger…or they would have gone to a hospital…where they would have been helped. No hospital would turn someone away whose life was in jeopardy.

 

Anders…it is a human life at conception. The heart starts beating at around 20 days…google fetal development and look at what the unborn can do at different stages.

The majority of abortions supposedly happen during the first twelve weeks.
This is what is going on in the womb when this is legal. At under three inches….which is just miraculous the unborn can….

The fetus is now about 2.5 inches (6cm) length and weighs about 0.7 ounce (20 g).
The feet are almost half an inch (1cm) long.
The fetus starts moving spontaneously.
The face is beginning to look like a baby's face.
The pancreas is functioning and producing insulin.
Fingernails and toenails appear.
The baby can suck his thumb, and get hiccups.

From this week you may well be able to hear the baby's heart beat through a doppler monitor on your tummy. You will notice that the rate is up to 160 a minute, double that of a normal adult.

Your baby now has a chin and a nose and a facial profile. Vocal chords are complete, and the baby can and does sometimes cry silently. The brain is fully formed, and the baby can also feel pain. The fetus may even suck his thumb.

The eyelids now cover the eyes, and will remain shut until the seventh month to protect the delicate optical nerve fibers. The hair is on the head and the fingers and toes have developed soft nails. The kidneys are developed and begin to secrete urine.

The 12 weeks scan [10 weeks fetal age] to the left shows a very active fetus. The mother who can not feel these movements; belly laughs, as she looks at the screen and can see her tiny baby kicking out.
The nuchal translucency (NT) 12 week scan is a routine ultrasound examination carried out at 10 to 14 weeks of gestation."


http://baby2see.com/development/week12.html

This is not a child already?

 

Not true. Only until the egg and sperm came together and united were you an individual human being.

 

And would you please tell us when the exact moment comes when that which is in the womb becomes a person? And be specific since we are dealing with a life and death issue.

 

When it is born.

 

A zef is not individual. FYI, "individual" means "separate", and a zef is not separate, i.e. not an individual.

 

Not really - the majority of people agree that abortion after viability is different from abortion prior to that time line. Where there is a difference of opinion is that most of us realise that abortion after viability is rare and usually done because of severe and life limiting congenital defect

 

And what about the 70% of fertilised eggs that never implant - are they "persons" too?

 

And then...when the "individual human being" (embryo) splits, you are two or more "human beings"?

 

Human yes….being, beings yes.

 

What don't you people get? I mean really…

Just does not matter what we say….you don't and won't get it.

 

Ad hominem

poor rebuttal