Fair Warning: Welcoming Immigrants & Refugees is a “Heaven or Hell” Issue

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by bobnelsonfr, Mar 11, 2017.

  1. bobnelsonfr

    bobnelsonfr Member

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    Original article by Benjamin L. Corey
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    Growing up Evangelical, we were often warned that some issues were “heaven or hell” issues. While even the most rigid among us recognized that some issues were open to differences of opinion or personal conviction, there are some moral issues where Jesus draws such a hard line that it becomes a “heaven or hell” issue.

    Meaning, unless Jesus was just totally bluffing, there are some things that aren’t open to negotiation.

    There are some things, according to Jesus, that will either hinder or absolutely prohibit one from entering his Kingdom– because he said so. The flip side of entering his Kingdom is hell– whatever one believes that may or may not be. However one interprets the concept of hell (I have a long series on that here), Jesus does warn of a divine punishment (whether punitive or restorative, permanent or temporary) that will fall upon those who choose to not embrace the principles of his Kingdom.

    It’s hard to get around that reality for anyone who believes the words of Jesus are true and authoritative.

    Growing up, hell-fire preachers were quick to identify things they thought were a “heaven or hell” issue– issues where being wrong sealed your fate in the afterlife. This most often had at least something to do with where you put your private parts. Or sometimes dancing, too– because we all know what happens if you get to dancing.

    Even in the television series Way of the Master with Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron, these street preachers would correctly tell people that the Bible even says that “all liars will have their place in the lake of fire,” meaning that simply being an unrepentant liar can be seen as a “heaven or hell” issue.

    But here’s the funny thing: in all those years growing up Evangelical and hearing all about these heaven or hell issues, I never once heard people focus on the one time Jesus actually warned people about what he considered heaven or hell issues.

    I can see why they ignored that critical passage– and I can see why they continue to do so today.

    The passage in question is the parable of the sheep and the goats, found in Matthew 25. In this, Jesus says that at the final judgment he will divide the nations into two groups– one on his left, and one on his right. The group that gets into his Kingdom? Well, Jesus says it’s because their faith led them to do some very specific actions.

    The group of people Jesus says he will send away into everlasting punishment? Well, that group of people also had faith and claimed to be Christians, but they earned themselves eternal punishment for not doing certain things they should have done.

    What are these heaven or hell actions that Jesus listed? Well, it was liberal nonsense if you were to ask some:

    Feed the hungry. Clothe the naked. Visit the prisoner. Welcome the stranger.

    When Jesus condemns the group on one side of the room to eternal punishment, they quickly object and remind him that they are Christians. They say, “But we did X, Y, and Z, and did it all in the name of Jesus!”

    Jesus of course, tells them “depart from me, I never knew you” and tells them that their refusal to care for the hungry, the needy, and to welcome the immigrant was a personal offense against him. He goes as far as identifying with the marginalized to an extreme– saying that when they refused to welcome the stranger, they were actually refusing to welcome the Son of God himself.

    I find it equally sad and amusing that many Christians are so quick to quote Paul’s list of people who will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, but will do the most intense intellectual and hermeneutical gymnastics to avoid the clear and plain statement of Jesus in Matthew 25: those who did not care for the poor and needy, and who shut out the immigrant, will face divine punishment at the final judgment.

    They claim we should overturn marriage equality in order to avoid the wrath of God.

    They claim we should outlaw abortion in order to avoid the wrath of God.

    But they never, ever, ever seem to say, “We should welcome refugees in order to avoid the wrath of God.”

    With so many Christians celebrating and supporting President Trump’s new executive orders functionally barring the most needy refugees from the United States– refugees from areas we’ve bombed to oblivion, refugees who could surely die if we do not let them in, I grieve over the number of American Christians who joined the wrong side of what Jesus himself claimed was a “heaven or hell” issue.

    If you are a Christian, if you believe that Jesus was the Son of God, that his words have authority, and that some issues of morality are actually “heaven or hell” issues, consider it fair warning that you *might* not want to ignore the direct warning Jesus gives about not welcoming in the stranger.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2017
    Jonsa and Durandal like this.
  2. bobnelsonfr

    bobnelsonfr Member

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    Matthew 25:31-46 New International Version (NIV) The Sheep and the Goats

    31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

    34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

    37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

    40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

    41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

    44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

    45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

    46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
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    IMNAAHO, this is a "duh".

    Christ was pretty constant, pretty explicit: "You must love your neighbors... and that means being F-ing nice to them! Helping them when they need help... for Christ's sake!" Jesus did not say, "... unless they're Muslims...". In fact, one of His best-known parables involves a despised Samaritan.

    I'm not sure what heaven and hell are... but I'm pretty sure Dr Corey is right: refusing help to people whom we ourselves put into the mess they are now in... is a very good ticket to hell.
     
  3. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Good points... Wouldn't it be funny if American fundamentalist Christianity and the social conservatism built up around it were all the work of the devil, ensnaring millions in a devious trap that would lead them down that broad, glorious path straight to hell? Yes, I think it is people like so many Christian Conservatives in America today to whom these gospel writers were speaking.
     
  4. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Geez, I wish people wouldn't point out the hypocritical bullcrap spouting from White Christian America.

    OTOH, they have no trouble pointing out the hypocrisy of Islamist Extremism and then claiming all muslims are the same, out to get their "good christian" brethren and families.

    I suppose one could say that Jesus never counted on the creation of the USA nor the rise of Islam so, he probably would have wanted to ban muslims too in order to protect his "flock".
     
  5. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Refer Posts # 1 & #2: Jesus personally never gave a poor person a fig. He claimed that he needed it more than the poor people because the poor were without limit.

    Jesus told his disciples to stay away from Samaritans and Gentiles. To associate with them would be a violation of the First Commandment.

    The later books of the New Testament say that if a person doesn't have what he needs it's too bad and so sad because the speaker isn't going to give it to them. They also boast about not taking any help from Gentiles.

    Jesus never preached to non-Jews and he said that he had been sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. His actions and words prove that to the true.

    When he spoke about helping the stranger and loving your neighbor he was talking about the behaviors that Jews should show each other. He even went so far as to talk about how Jews should gouge Gentiles with interest rates.
     
  6. Paysan

    Paysan Active Member

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    Gouge Gentiles? lol... let's see that verse, please.

    Wasn't it Jesus who told the story of the "Good Samaritan"? Didn't Jesus refer to a certain Roman soldier as having more faith than his Jewish disciples? "If a man ask for your coat, give him your cloak as well."

    Jesus is not recorded as giving away any figs, but he did feed a multitude, and I don't think he gave them a bill for it.

    Ignoring the plight of the unfortunate, or abusing strangers or outsiders, is clearly contrary to Jesus' teachings.

    Benito Juárez expressed this well: "Respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz."
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
  7. Paysan

    Paysan Active Member

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    "funny"? What you describe is accurate and real! Clearly evil forces are behind the me-first "American-exceptionalist" blame-the-victim philosophy of the Christian Right today.
     
  8. Dropship

    Dropship Well-Known Member

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    Steady on mate, Jesus came for the whole world-..:)-
    Jesus said- "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him" (John 3:17)
     
  9. lemmiwinx

    lemmiwinx Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you welcome Syrian refugees into your home and grandma ends up being decapitated for blasphemy against Islam don't say I didn't warn you.
     
  10. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, you know, I don't take any god and devil stuff seriously. The hypocrisy you're describing is a universal human trait and problem. It has always been with us and likely always will be. In fact, what we consider evil among our kind tends to be anti-social behavior, while we revere its opposites, selflessness and altruism. This is actually one of organized religion's major jobs in human society, addressing how we behave socially and insisting (contrary to fact) that there is a judge of "good" and "evil" who will reward or punish us according to how we behave socially, with the end goal being to mitigate people's selfish tendencies and improve society. It's a noble enough cause, though I think it's better pursued in a non-religious way today.
     
  11. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    According to Deuteronomy 23:19 (CEV) = Moses said: When you lend money, food, or anything else to another Israelite, you are not allowed to charge interest."

    In Matthew 25:27-29 (NLT) Jesus says that the guy could have gouged the Gentiles with interest if he had put the money in the bank =
    "27 why didn’t you deposit my money in the bank? At least I could have gotten some interest on it.’ 28 “Then he ordered, ‘Take the money from this servant, and give it to the one with the ten bags of silver. 29 To those who use well what they are given, even more will be given, and they will have an abundance. But from those who do nothing, even what little they have will be taken away."

    And when Jesus had to opportunity to personally raise cash to help the poor people he told his disciples to shove it because he needed it more than the poor did.

    Matthew 26:7-13 = https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+26:7-13&version=NLT;MSG;TLB;NKJV;ERV

    He was concerned about his own funeral whereas he had previously told another guy to let the dead bury their own dead.

    Jesus was accused of being a Samaritan himself. He was always acting like one by worshiping on the nearest hill. He never did answer the charge.

    The story about the loaves and fish illustrate the idea of hospitality. The Bible has a lot of stories about it. There was no way people would go out into the country without at least a snack. Jesus and his gang had one. The people didn't want to take theirs out of their dusty robes because then they would have had to offer it to their neighbors. So Jesus had his gang take theirs out and walk out into the crowd, thereby shaming them for being misers. Then everyone revealed their food, had a good laugh about it, and started eating. The story also illustrates the Final Judgment between the Sheep and the Goats in Matthew 25:31-46 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+25:31-46&version=NLT;MSG;TLB;NKJV;ERV

    The Jesus character was only concerned about the Jews, He didn't give a damn about the Gentiles. Do you know why he spoke in parables? He didn't want outsiders to know what he was talking about.

    Here it is in five pictures: http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_parables_of_jesus/use_of_parables_explained/mk04_33-34.html

     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2017

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