If it comes to light, without a shadow of doubt, that President Obama authorized fast and furious, should he be impeached?
leftleg; Quite a few already think fast and furious was designed to undermine the 2nd Amendment, which for "impeachment" would be more applicable. Acting in defense of the borders, though loosely defined for this case, is the duty of the Executive, a good defense and not impeachable IMO. This said, Obama is already on record, saying neither he or Eric Holder authorized the program, noting he WAS under oath, taken when inaugurated. With a little over a year left for his administration, in a campaign year and the apparent nominee for his party, I don't think anyone in interested in trying to Impeach or in fact a Senate Conviction(needed to remove from office), preferring letting the cloud over him, to continue. Personally, I would like to see Holder be ousted, maybe for pure justice for the caused deaths, or at best, for not knowing what was going on (total incompetence), but again except for the few closely involved and all the other problems currently in the Congress, there's simply no interest....
If Obama is impeached and removed from office, do you know who would become President? Please, for the love of Jeebus, let Obama stay in office until he gets voted out at the next election cycle.
Those are all good points. I decided to put this question to the forum after wondering what would happen to Obama if it was proven that he'd issued authorization and was fully aware of the operation. If not impeachment, what reprisal would be fitting?
leftleg; If Obama had not said "he had no knowledge of the program", for a trained lawyer this is interesting in itself, no action could be taken against him, by Congress, he was doing his job. Since lying or "cover up", is illegal and a breach of his or any Federal Oath of office, he wins a second term and somebody does comes forward implicating him, said he had knowledge or approved of the program, there will be impeachment hearings and suspect House Arguments (basically a trial). To avoid this scenario, based on "cover up", Nixon resigned from office, Clinton chose to fight it out, losing in the House (impeached) and the Senate chose not to expel him. Since "civil charges" can be lodged, by relation or others involved with the program and removal from office IS evidence, I don't think he or any President will be impeached, not wanting to see a President of the US, on trial in any criminal or civil proceeding. As to "reprisal", maybe punishment would be best, but losing the 2012 Election or developing a legacy involving covering up illegal actions (he has more than one pending) will place him far down the list for the best, by historians...For the record, knowing it's not the pundits opinion, today I'd give him a 30% chance to win in 2012, against anyone and it wouldn't surprise me if somebody challenges him for the Democratic Nomination, even if unsuccessfully.
I hadn't thought of that either. What actions can be taken against a President other than impeachment? I had considered another Democrat running against Obama, and I would give that a candidate a chance by examining their views. I wouldn't instantly rule them out. I started a thread on the topic, it wasn't very productive: http://www.politicalforum.com/elect...democrat-alternatives-2012-pres-election.html
The Constitution pretty much covers it. A President can be impeached for high crimes, misdeamenors or treason- but since Congress makes the determination of what 'high crimes or misdemeanors' are, they can impeach a President for almost anything they want. But like the other poster said, if he didn't lie about authorizing, I would say there is no legal reason that he can be impeached. The other option is the one that comes along every 4 years. If those two options aren't sufficient for you....well you probably need to amend the Constitution.
If Obama buys a Mustang, and puts some sissy Japanese V-6 in it, like they did in Fast & Furious, I'd vote to impeach him
Impeachable and prosecutable. Since this resulted in the death of a federal officer in the commision of his duties, this is AT LEAST accessory to murder. They knew.
LOL. American sell guns to the Drug Cartell all day, every day. Over 90% of the firearms and explosives the Drug cartels use come from the USA via gun shows. To think a few US incidents is unstopable is crazy talk. The Mexican Federal and Policia confiscate thousands of US firearms every year from the drugies. One US death is collatoral damage in the so called war on drugs. hundreds die each month in Mexico because of the so called war on drugs. eventually, the Mexican govenrment will wake up and smell the gun powder and divert it's financial resources to other things to strenghting their government. When they do, the USA boarder towns will be the new killing ground for the drug cartel. You all aint' seen nothing yet.
I don't support it whether it's government sanctioned or not. But I think it's worse when it's at the hands of our own government. I agree that U.S. drug policy needs some tweaking, but the fact that there is a war on drugs does not justify or explain really what the cartels are doing to each other and their nation. They don't have to slaughter each other, citizens, and government forces over the profits, they're doing that on their own accord. Some have suggested that we send troops to Mexico... horrible idea I think. I think that would indeed create a scenario like you suggest above. We'll do something about it before our border towns reach Juarez grade violence. That stuff won't fly here.
Really? You are really trying to conflate a badly-planned weapons tracking program with Nixon's personal mastermind and planning of burglary and other crimes for direct political advantage by gaining and sabotaging the Democrats election plans? Really? Compared to the Bay of Pigs disaster and exploding cigars to assassinate Castro? Compared to the faked attack on a warship in the Gulf of Tonkin to escalate the Vietnam war? Compared to demanding your White House lawyers justify torture? You all are SOOOO frikin' desperate. It is like a parody. It must really suck to be a Right Winger.
