For All the Carbon Talk....When $$$ is on the Line Europe Burns Coal at 6 Year High

May I ask you why?

 

Tell me another one...this stuff is funny!

Thanks it was meant to be........(please tell me you did not take it seriously???)

 

Typical Propaganda....

That is an active mine BB (see the dragline in the center)...the green fields in the background are the reclaimed areas....ground cover to start, the trees take a few years....sorry we can't do anything to speed that up....

 

The green fields in the background Manny..............

............all you AND BB have proven is that BOTH of you are absolutely CLUELESS regarding the very thing you are complaining about...also typical greenie......

 

Logan WVa Shopping center.....brought to you my the mining and reclamation industry.



Hundreds of jobs, income and education for the kids, raised the standard of living....all at the cost of 0.000001% of the west Virginia mountain tops......

Evil...EVIL miners !!!!! I am sure the people of Logan would rather have the hill top back.....

 

I am not against mining per say and I know people need jobs and coal mining pays well.

It is the so called reclamation that I have trouble with. And always remember that the only reason that reclamation is done id because the government forces it.

Saving the topsoil and replacing the original topsoil back in the original place would add to the diversity of the landscape because of the native seed still viable in the soil. And other native trees need to be planted other than yellow pine.

 

Actually, a lot of the early reclamation projects were done by private non-profit orgs before government regulations were enacted. Some such groups still exist. When I'm at a computer I'll post a few links to such groups.

Sure, the regulations have ensured that companies will plan ahead for the reclamation and will do it themselves, but even without the regulations it was happening.

 

It is the so called reclamation that I have trouble with. And always remember that the only reason that reclamation is done id because the government forces it. I don't disagree PC, not all gov regulation is bad. What is disagree with is the nutjobs that say ALL mining is bad......

 

Can I show some pictures of creeks full of orange crap that will burn you like battery acid if you touch it?


Not on this planet. What you are referring to is an iron hydroxide precipitate. It is harmless, although an eyesore Ill grant you. As kids we used to throw the stuff at each other. It will stain like hell, but it is not acidic.



OMG !! His hands are burning off !!!

Now I warrant it IS a sign that the water needs checked and the source of the low PH found...but it is a LONG way from "battery acid".

 

Your ignorance is showing again, Fudd.

Acid mine drainage
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Acid mine drainage (AMD), or acid rock drainage (ARD), refers to the outflow of acidic water from (usually abandoned) metal mines or coal mines. However, other areas where the earth has been disturbed (e.g. construction sites, subdivisions, transportation corridors, etc.) may also contribute acid rock drainage to the environment. In many localities the liquid that drains from coal stocks, coal handling facilities, coal washeries, and even coal waste tips can be highly acidic, and in such cases it is treated as acid rock drainage. Acid rock drainage occurs naturally within some environments as part of the rock weathering process but is exacerbated by large-scale earth disturbances characteristic of mining and other large construction activities, usually within rocks containing an abundance of sulfide minerals.

Yellow boy

When the pH of acid mine drainage is raised past 3, either through contact with fresh water or neutralizing minerals, previously soluble Iron(III) ions precipitate as Iron(III) hydroxide, a yellow-orange solid colloquially known as yellow boy[5]. Other types of iron precipitates are possible, including iron oxides and oxyhydroxides. All these precipitates can discolor water and smother plant and animal life on the streambed, disrupting stream ecosystems (a specific offense under the Fisheries Act in Canada). The process also produces additional hydrogen ions, which can further decrease pH. In some cases, the concentrations of iron hydroxides in yellow boy are so high, the precipitate can be recovered for commercial use in pigments[6]

Trace metal and semi-metal contamination

Many acid rock discharges also contain elevated levels of potentially toxic metals, especially nickel and copper with lower levels of a range of trace and semi-metal ions such as lead, arsenic, aluminium, and manganese. In the coal belt around the south Wales valleys in the UK highly acidic nickel-rich discharges from coal stocking sites have proved to be particularly troublesome.

 

How am I complaining? Because you seem to be having reading comprehension problems, let me simplify.
My knowledge of strip mining and the environmental effects are limited. I mentioned strip mining because I know that it has an environmental cost which, IMO, must be taken in account when determining the cost of using coal. I never addressed if the coal companies' reclamation is satisfactory or unsatisfactory. So you are half right; I am clueless to the coal companies efforts but, because I am clueless, I would never complain. Because I am clueless, why do you not educate me on how the land is reclaimed. Show me the process and the long term successes they have had.

I fully realize and accept that humans are going to affect the environment. I will not accept that any industry jeopardizes anyone's health for the sake of profit. IMO, "if you broke it, you fix it", even if it means charging more for their product. The coal companies may have bought and own the land they mine, but the environment belongs to all; and neither they, nor any industry, have any right, (because it belongs to all) to destroy that environment.

 

This is an impressive post but not all mining has the same effects. I haven't done the surveys but where I live in alabama most of the rock is sandstone and shale with some limestone. I am also not a chemist but I am pretty sure limestone will not lower the PH in water. I am pretty sure it will raise it.

And as far as the mountain soil goes it is not very good stuff. It is composed of clay (powdered sand) with very little organic matter.

The good land is in the valleys...that is why "bottom land" has always sold for more money. Silt from the top of the mountains travel down to the valleys and is "captured" there. A mesa would not have good soil. I live on a rock and it has taken me years just to establish good pasture...and that ain't finished yet.

 

You simply cut and paste something you think makes a point. Are you like 14 years old? Diet Coke is "highly acidic" but it does not burn your skin like battery acid as was claimed. I highly doubt you have every seen yellow boy much less walked creeks polluted with it like I have.....

 

Never cleaned your car battery and noticed the next day your skin was raw from the acid? That's exactly what can happen with the orange crap, due to the sulfuric acid content. It's a mild acid burn. I know this from direct experience. Yellow boy comes in various strengths. It can be weak, or in an isolated puddle that starts evaporating and concentrating, it can literally hit battery acid pH. It burns like battery acid of the same strength because it essentially is battery acid.

Limestone, even crushed, has little effect on neutralizing the yellow boy, as the acid reacts with limestone to form an impenetrable calcium sulfate layer on the limestone, preventing further reaction.

And the good land is in the valleys, but mountaintop removal destroys the valleys. The mountaintop dirt has to go somewhere, and that somewhere is dumped into the valleys, which obliterates the valleys.

 

Back to some carbon talk,

http://www.iea.org/newsroomandevents/news/2012/may/name,27216,en.html
---
CO2 emissions in the United States in 2011 fell by 92 Mt, or 1.7%, primarily due to ongoing switching from coal to natural gas in power generation and an exceptionally mild winter, which reduced the demand for space heating. US emissions have now fallen by 430 Mt (7.7%) since 2006, the largest reduction of all countries or regions.
---

The left doesn't want to talk about this success, because part of it is due to the recession, and part is due to switching from coal to natural gas.

The right doesn't want to talk about this success, because part is due to efficiency regulations, and because they all swore that any reduction would completely wreck the economy and cause everyone to be living in caves.

As a result, the USA has implemented an extremely successful CO2 reduction program that no one wants to talk about. CO2 emissions are now back down to 1996 levels, while economic output now is far greater than it was in 1996.

 

1) you are actually speaking of the solution the yellow boy precipitates out of, not the orange compound itself.
2) the burns you get from cleaning the battery are from the compounds on the terminals, not the battery acid itself. If you got the battery acid itself on your hand you would be burned almost immediately.

I don't say you are wrong about the solution reaching such low PH levels that sticking you hand in water with yellow boy can cause burns but I have never heard of it. Could you please supply some links (believable ones please, not rants on Greenie blogs that their mountain bike was dissolved in a creek).

 

...and the super-green Europeans are still burning coal.

 

Calcium sulfate is gypsum - definitely not impervious to water.

 

More specifically,

http://mine-drainage.usgs.gov/pubs/AG_18-1705-1721.pdf

"Limestone grains developed a rind of gypsum encapsulated by a 10- to 30-mm thick, Fe-Al hydroxysulfate coating."

Limestone isn't useless, but it's less useful than expected because it quickly gets coated with junk.

 

In the Appalachian Plateau, "bottom land" has another name: flood plain.

 

I reckon that would depend on where you live.

I believe in conservation and miners could do a better job perhaps.

But with high unemployment it would not be a good idea just to shut down mines because some "greenie" in some other part of the country thinks its a good idea.

Mining needs to be done with respect for the environment and if they shut down because of competition from other fuels thats one thing.

But right now this country needs the jobs. We can't shut down the world just because someone is worried about a snail darter or a desert toad.