For Christians Or Atheists Who Were Christian, Do Catholics Worship Saints And Idols?

Speaking as a non denominational christian it looks like catholics worship saints and idols when that is expressly forbidden in the bible under the passage that states, "worship no gods before me"

Any atheists who used to be christian or other christians agree to this?

Could catholics explain how a saint or the cross is not an idol or how confessing to a priest is not idol worship since he is treated as divine in that moment worthy of hearing your sins.

 

1) If you read "prayers" to Saints, most involve asking saints to pray for us. We are not praying to saints in terms of worship, but rather in terms of asking them to pray for us, as we ask people on earth to pray for us. We believe saints are alive in heaven, and that God listens to their prayers.

2) We don't think priests are divine. They are successors to the apostles. Christ gave the apostles the ability to forgive sins. We believe the priests have that ability as well.

I have scriptural references to the above, if needed.

 

No... They give thanks to Saints an Idols...

 

Personally.. I don't think so. I think icons may focus the mind and they are asking for intercession.

More accurately... I don't see why it should be a point of contention.

Confessing to a priest is harmless.. Today.. a secular person or Protestant might go to a therapist for advice and counsel.

 

Having been raised Roman Catholic but now claim no denominational label, let me just say a couple of things:

1) Yes, we never considered praying to saints as worshipping them.

2) The purpose of the priest was to stand as an outward figure for the ppl, most who knew not the scriptures. Altho the orig intention might have been 'noble,' scripture states that "we have one advocate between man and God, the Lord Jesus Christ."

3) And scripture also says to "confess your sins one to another," which doesnt preclude a priest, but he alone is not the only way to confess one's sins. I totally disagree with dying with a 'mortal' sin on one's soul as sending them to Hell! Also, forgiveness of sin as in Last Rites to an unconscious person as a must. Catholics shud never have to question their salvation, as scripture says "These things have been written that you may KNOW that you have eternal life." KNOW as in resting & being assured of.

But all sincere believers, despite the 'distractions' of church dogma, who believe in & accept Christ's work at the cross as for the propitiation for their sins, are on the path to eternal life...and just stumbling along the way, but getting right back on that path is the goal for all Believers.

 

I've never met a "raised catholic" who actually understands what the Catholic Church teaches. Let's see if you're an exception.

Fairly stated and a conclusion that should arise from common sense.

You blew it. You're no exception. The priesthood does not supplant the chief advocacy of Jesus Christ. The priesthood is according to the order of Melchizadek with Christ as high priest. To say that priests supplant Jesus is like saying that lower order priests of the Aaronic order supplanted Aaron. To see an conflict here is to completely misunderstand what a priesthood is.

The priest is the only one who can forgive sins acting under the authority of the bishop who draws a direct lineage through the centuries to the Apostles themselves. This is one thing Protestants always had a problem with, that Jesus gave authority to the Apostles to forgive sins. Protestants don't believe that Jesus can delegate that authority, so they simply ignore that passage.

"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God." (1Cor 6:9,10)

In the Catholic Church, both presumption of salvation and despair of salvation are considered sinful, because both spring from pride and audacious speculation on the inscrutable judgements of God.

And the wares of the Catholic Church that you call distractions are actually tools to assist us on the path to holiness. Prayers and devotions, holy Mass, confession, and religious observances can be used deftly to keep us on the right path. Don't for a second think you have outsmarted 2000 years of rich tradition vouchsafed to us for our spiritual welfare.

 

The purpose of my post was to enlighten those (Catholics and non-Catholics) to the new creation realities of following Jesus Christ. Not to bash them.

Catholicism took OT Jewish worship, robes and all, and just took it fwd into the church age. The OT Laws (10 Commandments) were carried fwd, but have been fulfilled with the 2: Love your God and Love your Neighbor, for short.

We as followers are kings & priests TODAY! There is no priesthood of Aaron nor temple with a curtain separating us from God.

Resting in one's salvation is not pride, as in oneself. And all those sins you mentioned have to do with those 'who practice' lawlessness, not to the one who may stumble. Whereas the unrighteous can do righteous works; the gift of righteousness has been given to believers by faith in the cross of Jesus Christ. And, altho righteous (as in 'right standing with God), we can still sin. But 'we' dont PRACTICE sin! Big difference as compared to the list of 'practicers' that you quoted.

Too much of Catholic doctrine has been turned into bondage, just as a divorced person who remarries another is a 'perpetual adulterer'..makes no common (God-given) sense.

And as I was growing up, as also an altar boy, I was told that one MUST be a Catholic to go to heaven---but when I pushed, "What about Protestants?", I was told that "the good ones would go to heaven!"

I hadnt planned on 'bashing' the Catholic church--am just responding to your post. But to those who are steeped in it, and trust in the doctrines of men, I hope that the reality of the grace of God and the assurance of their salvation becomes manifested not out of fear of losing it, but by 'resting' in it.

 

One of the reasons Protestants fail to grasp the truth of the Catholic Church is that they don't perceive the symmetry between the Old and New Covenants, that every aspect of the Old Covenant finds its mirror (and fulfillment) in the New. The Seat of Moses is superceded by the Seat of Peter, the Aaronic priesthood with the priesthood of Melchizadek, animal sacrifices with the one and perfect sacrifice eternally made present in the Mass. Altars, Sacraments, incense, vestments....all of these were practiced and implemented in the early church as a continuation of Old Testament worship. More to the point, Hebrews tells us that the tabernacle of the Old Testament was made as a shadow and copy of the heavenly tabernacle, not made with human hands. How much more appropriate it is that the format of worship remained unchanged in congruence with that eternal and heavenly tabernacle! Read the book of Hebrews with understanding, especially chapters 7-9.

Christians are part of a royal priesthood, a superior priesthood that preceded that of Aaron. The Levitical priesthood is made obsolete (Heb 8:13) in that it is fulfilled by the priesthood of Melchizadek of which Christ is high priest forever. This is something few protestants understand, that the priesthood didn't go away, it was replaced with a superior one.

Good. Don't "practice" mortal sin and you won't have to worry about whether or not this teaching is true.

Of course, easy-divorcism makes a lot of sense creating broken families, embittered children, and weakening the very fabric of our society. To see marriage as bondage that should be escaped is the problem.

Your anecdotes aren't Catholic teaching. We consider protestants to be "separated brethren", baptized Christians out of communion with Christ's one and original Church.

How is it that any doctrine you believe is manna falling from heaven but any you disagree with is the "doctrine of men"? Do you not see through your own bias? I'm not trying to bash Protestants either, but when erroneous statements are made about the Catholic Church, which is something this thread intends to produce, I have no choice but to defend the holy faith by pointing out the true source of error, the Protestant Reformation.

 

1st of all, I dont consider myself as a Protestant---Im not protesting anything but looking for unity in the Body thru the Holy Spirit.

As I said, my orig intention was NOT to stir up strife in the Body. The perceived attacks and 'over-reacting texting' are on your part.

If one feels it is a must and a need to "dot every i" and 'cross every t" to get to heaven, as per 'their good works,' then that is between them and their God. You dont have to 'ultimately' answer to me....

 

My mature, well thought out, reasoned, adult response...

 

Nice to see 'zeal' with a sense of humor....how could I ever get mad at someone with the 'same name' as my son... Back at ya...

 

As a non-denominational Christian I have never had an issue with the Catholic Saints or their ecclesiastical structure.

 

as a former practicing catholic i must say this is one of the biggest misconceptions about catholics. no we do not worship saints or idols, simply pray to them in tribute as a way to give thanks for what they have done and for them to pray for us.

the only worshiping going on goes to God and God only. like the Hail Mary prayer, its nothing but a prayer recognizing the mother of God and asking her to pray for for us, its nothing about idolizing her.

 

James 2:14-18
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my works.



I agree works alone won't get you to heaven, but faith without works isn't faith at all.

 

When the scriptures were being canonized to produce the Bible, many Christian theological scholars of the time did NOT want to include the Book of James, as the Christian community believed solely in the foundational scripture of "By Grace are you saved thru faith, and not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God and not of works lest any man shud boast."

The Book of James seemed to contradict that statement. But in fact the way it all works is: "True you are saved by faith and NOT of works, which would build up pride in the believer as being 'his' doing. However, Good works 'follow' (as a by product) the one who is saved.

What concerns me about the Catholics, is that they are always in 'a state of uncertainty' about their salvation---they are saved one day...then they sin..then confess it...then saved again...etc, etc, etc. And, if they 'die' during the wrong part of that cycle, they will go to Hell!

Again the 'righteous' (those in right-standing with God) altho practice righteousness (good works) can & do sin (meaning, "to miss the mark," as God being the Std). But God who gives us 'the free Gift of Righteousness' (much of the Book of Romans talks about that subject) for accepting Christ's work at the cross for 'our' sins, does not take back His Gift.

I have no problem with Catholics being Catholics, just dont continually question your salvation, as that heaps guilt & condemnation, and makes one ineffective as a follower of Christ and in being His representative on the earth.

 

No more than anyone who prays in front of a crucified Jesus statue does.

 

Why not just ask Catholics what they believe as opposed to asking outsiders what they think they believe?

 

Surely the point is that these things are metaphors made out of the daily world early Roman Catholics lived in, where power was remote and you needed a friend at Court - think Godfather? By and large, I think, people can only make sense of Heavens and such in terms of what they know, which is why so very many people outside the United States find belief so difficult: the 'king' metaphor no longer corresponds to anything in their daily experience. How the US fundamentalists play it I can't guess.

 

If youre going to believe all that nonsense then practice what you preach..

 

agreed that is a big problem, but the catholics have too many intermediates which does not abide by the rules.

from priests to mary to the saints, there shouldn't be any intermediates

 

The OP doesn't seem interested in the truth. I found it to be the same with Mormons and to my surprise, what they believe is often very different from what I was told they believe by non-mormons. I found out just by asking them. But I guess the direct route is just overrated...

 

I am pretty positive Catholics don't worship Saints or Idols. They have a lot of reverence for the Saints, but that shouldn't be confused with worship of them.

 

Do you ever ask people to pray for you?