In continuation of the two previous, now closed, threads - Holocaust revised... http://www.politicalforum.com/latest-us-world-news/294790-holocaust-revised.html and Holocaust revised continued... http://www.politicalforum.com/history-culture/295713-holocaust-revised-cont.html I would like to add one more important piece from Alan Hart: Did the Holocaust really happen? Understanding the real significance TODAY of the Nazi holocaust Those who deny and/or revise the Nazi holocaust offer three main assertions in support of their case. The first is that the Nazis had no official policy or intention of exterminating Jews. Killing Jews in large numbers was not on the Nazi agenda when Hitler came to power in 1933. As has been well documented by others, there was on some levels co-operation between the Nazis and Zionism to empty Germany of its Jews and get them into Palestine. Killing Jews in large numbers only became behind-closed-doors Nazi policy after the 1939 British White Paper effectively repudiated the Balfour Declaration of 1917 and reversed British policy for Palestine. .... .... Britains new Palestine policy, in particular the limits on Jewish immigration which were enforced, was a problem for the Nazis, too. If they couldnt make use of Zionism as an agency to assist with the removal of Jews to Palestine, what to do? The answer was, Kill them. There is a great deal of documented and irrefutable evidence of what Nazi leaders said behind closed doors and wrote in their diaries on the matter of exterminating the Jews. One of the responsibilities of Heinrich Himmler, the commander of the SS, was setting up and controlling the Nazi concentration camps. To a secret meeting of top SS officials on 4 October 1943, he said: I also want to refer here very frankly to a very difficult matter. We can now very openly talk about this among ourselves, and yet we will never discuss this publicly. What was the very difficult matter? In Himmlers own words to his audience, the extermination of the Jewish people. When Germanys defeat was imminent and Nazi leaders feared they would be captured and brought to trial, Himmler instructed his camp commandants to destroy records, crematoria, and all other signs of mass extermination. The Nazi leader who most frequently and explicitly committed his thoughts about exterminating the Jews to paper was Joseph Goebbels, Hitlers Minister of Propaganda. Here, for example, are just a few of his diary entries: 5 February 1942: The Jewish question is again giving us a headache; this time, however, not because we have gone too far, but because we are not going far enough. 14 February 1942: The Jews have deserved the catastrophe that has now overtaken them. Their destruction will go hand in hand with the destruction of our enemies. We must hasten this process with cold ruthlessness. 18 February 1942: We must show them no mercy and no indulgence. This riffraff must be eliminated and destroyed. 6 March 1942: the greater the number of Jews liquidated, the more consolidated will the situation in Europe be after this war. 20 March 1942: the Fuehrer is as uncompromising as ever. The Jews must be got out of Europe, if necessary by applying most brutal methods. 27 March 1942: The procedure is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely. Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that about 60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only about 40 per cent can be used for forced labour, 29 April 1942: Short shrift is made of the Jews in all eastern occupied areas. Tens of thousands of them are liquidated 14 December 1942: Jewry must pay for its crime just as our Fuehrer prophesied in his speech in the Reichstag; namely, by the wiping out of the Jewish race in Europe and possibly in the entire world. 9 March 1943 (Hitler) approved of my measures and specifically ordered me to make Berlin entirely free of Jews. 13 May 1943: There is therefore no other recourse left for modern nations except to exterminate the Jew . http://www.alanhart.net/understanding-the-real-significance-today-of-the-nazi-holocaust/#comments --------------------- Please, read the full article as I have omitted sections to shorten the post. Goebbel's diary entries are new to me. So is Himmler's talk about the extermination of Jews. Such talks and diary entries from the big Nazi brass make it hard to prove there was no holocaust.
The second main assertion of those who deny and/or revise the holocaust is that the Nazis did not use gas chambers to mass murder Jews. I wonder how many of those who believe this and display in comments on web sites their loathing and even hatred of all Jews everywhere have ever met and talked with Jewish survivors of the Nazi holocaust? I have and Ill quote just one of them, my anti-Zionist friend Dr. Hajo Meyer who survived Auschwitz. He told me, and I believed him without reservation, that some of his Jewish comrades in Auschwitz were assigned the task of removing the corpses from the gas chambers and transferring them to incinerators for burning. He added that the smoke and fumes from the chimneys of the incinerators could be seen and smelled all over the camp. http://www.alanhart.net/understanding-the-real-significance-today-of-the-nazi-holocaust/#comments --------------------------------------- I wonder what David Cole and Ernst Zundel, who asserted there were no gas chambers, would say to this.
The third main assertion of holocaust revisionists is that the figure of six million Jewish deaths is a gross exaggeration and that the real number was very significantly lower. That might be the case but even if it was, my response is still so what! For the sake of discussion, lets assume that only one million Jews were exterminated, would that be a rational reason to deny that there was a holocaust? Of course not! http://www.alanhart.net/understanding-the-real-significance-today-of-the-nazi-holocaust/#comments So far Alan Hart. ------------------------ If one believes Himmler and Goebbels, then the Nazis did indeed, after transfer to Palestine came to a halt, have the intention to kill the Jews, but would save 40% of them for slave labor. If one believes that a good friend of Alan Hart knew that Jewish inmates had to transport gassed victims to the crematoria for burning, then we know the Nazis had gas chambers and used them. We also know that an order was given to all camp leaders to destroy all evidence of gassings as the front came closer. Now the 6 million! It has been made public that Auschwitz has greatly reduced the number of killed victims... it says so on a plaque. All considered, the holocaust can not be denied! Amen
For a review on the Holocaust you won't need the witnesses account anymore but science. Mr Leuchter had the initiative to use science for the first time to verify if those rooms were indeed gas chambers. The scientific evidence denies the use of those rooms as gas chambers. But this denial is not because science is anti-semite, but because science is an ordered method to obtain knowledge in base of observation, experimentation, etc. The Leuchter report has been attacked as full of errors, however, nothing indicates errors affecting neither the evidence and less the conclusion. By the way, you don't need to be an expert in a subject in order to make an investigation. If you follow the procedures and your degree is not higher than elementary school, your report still is valid as long as the scientific method requirements have been fulfilled. Your attacks on Mr Leuchter person are not only invalid but 100% irrewlevant. A few main issues turn down the claims of gas chambers: no special doors installed in those rooms to impede the escape of gas were found, not a porper ventilation system to allow the clear up of gas for fast removal of bodies was found, and less, not enough residual to justify such presence of gas. You can fight with all the deniers of the Holocaust by presenting from your part lots of fake documentation and a "perfect" sequence of imaginary actions made by the Nazis, but you have not provided the insulated doors, the proper ventilatioin system and the minimum required residual of that gas in walls, ceilings and ventilation systems. You have no scientific evidence supporting the gas chambers. And sorry, but those "documents found in a hotel after 70 years, declaring that the Nazis ordered special doors for gas chambers, hmmmm... that storytelling is not believed by anyone, everybody knows that those are fake documents. Too late as well to make your own scientific investigation, because such will be expected to be another fraud. Science debunked the Holocaust and you should accept it.
It does have an affect if one million is the official number of deaths by the Nazis as crimes of war against Jews, and other millions -less than six millions anyway- are "collateral damage". The word "holocaust" is what bothers a lot, because this was a war, not a religious ritual were sacrifices with fire were performed. I call it cremation because such was the action made to burn dead bodies like crazy to avoid plagues. This method of mass cremation is traditional thru history, nothing new, it is made to protect everything that is alive from contamination. I don't see any reason to call it "holocaust" in the first place.
Some religious people call Hitler "the Hand of God", the man used by God to make Jewish migrating to Palestine. Apparently Jewish people refused to populate Palestine and God had no other choice but to rise up another Nebuchadnezzar... a German one... to make them change their minds...
You are amazing, Carlos le Baron!! My mind is fogged; my memory cells can hardly recall those posts... what on Earth are you doing here? O.k., I better wake up and put on a jacket, it is getting chilly. That Hitler was called "the hand of God" I have never heard before! If we should believe that, then we must also believe that it was God's hand that destroyed Germany and lifted up Israel, a terrorist Nation! God's ways are hard to comprehend for at least a few of us mortals. I rather believe in Christ, his son.
