Former CDC director says he believes coronavirus originated in Wuhan lab

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by Pollycy, Mar 27, 2021.

PF does not allow misinformation. However, please note that posts could occasionally contain content in violation of our policies prior to our staff intervening. We urge you to seek reliable alternate sources to verify information you read in this forum.

  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    35,541
    Likes Received:
    11,642
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Not entirely, Duradul
    This guy is speaking from experience
    Who would be better qualified than him to speculate?
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2021
  2. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    56,376
    Likes Received:
    28,036
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Speculation is speculation. The point is that his credentials don't make his claims any more valid or factual.

    Also, what experience would be relevant to claiming that this virus came from a Chinese lab? My experience tells me that Trump and people associated with Trump talk a lot of crap, especially when it comes to China.
     
    fiddlerdave likes this.
  3. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    29,922
    Likes Received:
    14,183
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    My dentist would agree with you entirely about Pfizer's vaccine. I have all the faith in the world in his opinion about dentistry, and nearly everything else in the world (having known him well for over 25 years). He said he didn't bat an eye, and got both Pfizer jabs, right on schedule. But, in truth, I think that physicians and dentists had some special accommodation for access to the vaccines, at least, here in Colorado.... It's OK, they deserve higher priority, no doubt about that.

    If Colorado (or whoever) drags their feet on J&J another two weeks, I guess I'll break down and go get the first Moderna jab, and then hope I don't get the "Three Stooges runaround" while trying to get the second shot lined-up. I would choose Moderna over Pfizer only because the required rigor involved in handling, storage, and refrigeration is much less -- thus, ostensibly, fewer opportunities for a different klatsch of "Three Stooges" to mishandle Moderna. Honestly, until the sudden announcement about the 'one-shot wonder', J&J vaccine, I was already thinking that Moderna was the 'way to go'.

    I'm glad you brought up the example of TV's, and I've been shopping them energetically for about the last six months.

    I was all gung-ho to get an LG OLED TV -- the latest technology, the best picture, no backlight problems (because no backlights!) BUT -- image 'burn-in' is a nagging, puzzling problem with OLED TV's, and nobody has solved it yet. So, I'll probably get either a Sony or a Samsung TV that is a little less 'bleeding-edge' tech, but maybe a lot less misery in the long run (the warranty on OLED TV's doesn't cover image burn-in). :cynic:

    "Newer is often better", as you say, and in general, you're right... but not always!

    [​IMG]."No, you idiot! I said to store that stuff at 75-degrees BELOW zero!" :frustrated:
     
  4. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2020
    Messages:
    9,882
    Likes Received:
    8,404
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Aren't you aware that the cold chain requirements for Pfizer have changed? Now it is said that it stays perfect when it is stored at -20, comparable to Moderna, so the opportunities to mishandle it appear to be less important.

    Well, of course healthcare workers deserve priority. One, because we're exposed to bigger viral loads (which is why some young ones among us have died of Covid-19 when it is generally less lethal for people of equivalent age who don't work in healthcare). Two, because you guys need us healthy, in order to take care of you. In Italy, part of the high initial death toll was because the country ran out of doctors and nurses who were getting sick, too.

    OLED TVs have better picture, true, but also the burn-in problem. LED TVs have improved and now, while not quite as good, do approach OLED quality. Excellent LED TVs generate less than 0.01cd/m2 of light for black sections of the screen. OLED TVs produce no light at all for those same sections and that's an advantage for deep blacks and infinite contrast but you can see that now LED TVs get close to no light for black areas of the picture, too.

    Burn-in for OLED TVs is said to be possible after 1,000 hours. How many hours do you watch TV per day? You might take that into consideration. If it's 3 hours your screen may last one meager year... If it's one hour, 3 years when it might be time to replace it anyway as new technology is always coming.
     
    Pollycy likes this.
  5. lemmiwinx

    lemmiwinx Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2016
    Messages:
    8,069
    Likes Received:
    5,430
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That's you're cancel culture right there in a nutshell. Don't debate the other side just cancel them. Ban them from Fakebook and Tweeter problem solved.
     
  6. Capt Nice

    Capt Nice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Messages:
    9,998
    Likes Received:
    10,218
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    LOL. You're beginning to get the idea.
     
  7. hawgsalot

    hawgsalot Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2017
    Messages:
    11,030
    Likes Received:
    10,004
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Ok let's make this simple, which part of his profession experience that lead him to the head of the CDC do you not like. What part of your professional experience can help us even remotely take your and Centerfield's take serious?
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2021
  8. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    29,922
    Likes Received:
    14,183
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Well, 'the cat's out of the bag' now about what happened to the J&J vaccine... the company that was instrumental in its manufacture screwed everything up and now they've had to trash FIFTEEN MILLION DOSES OF IT. I guess my parody example of so much of all this vaccine thing being run by the Three Stooges wasn't far from reality after all!

    The sign-up process for both Pfizer and Moderna in Colorado now is being described as a migraine headache that just goes on and on and on, and it seems certain that this monumental fugg-up with the J&J vaccine is going to just make everything that much more insanely unmanageable -- at least in the State of Colorado. So. It looks like no vaccine for me until the end of May, if then...(?)

    *** This was not (NOT) an April Fool's joke.... *** :lonely:

    Links:
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/factory-screw-up-halts-johnson-and-johnson-covid-19-vaccine-shipments
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/31/15m-doses-johnson-johnson-vaccines-ruined-mixup
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2021
  9. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2020
    Messages:
    9,882
    Likes Received:
    8,404
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Yes, the third party company that contracted with both J&J and AstraZeneca, screwed up and put AstraZeneca inert components into J&J active viral components resulting in spoilage of 15 million doses. Unbelievable! I think they should be sued. This will result in some unnecessary deaths.

    Sorry to hear about Colorado and sorry to hear about your delay in getting the vaccine.

    In my state things are peachy. Just yesterday, we were advertising that we had 1,000 empty slots for eligible candidates, and we filled about 250 of them after the announcement so as of this morning we still had 750 available slots, meaning that everybody who is eligible can easily book an appointment here with us just about now (and hey, don't come running; people need to enroll through the official State website which verifies residence requirements; we don't want vaccine tourism since primarily we are trying to serve the citizens of our state; when the candidate arrives, the front desk logs into the State site and verifies that the person is eligible, before we administer the vaccine). We are moving on 4/8 to make all adults 18 and older eligible.

    I think we'll run out of people willing to take the vaccine (that pesky 50% of Republicans who don't want it which is incredibly STUPID; given that my state is purple, this means that half of our population is made of Republicans so 25% of the total population won't want the vaccine just on account of political ideology, and probably a smaller proportion of Democrats and others who may not want it for different reasons) rather than running out of vaccines and appointments. I think if we get to vaccinate 65% of the population, that's probably the best we can do. Which is a pity. A wise citizenry should rather accept the vaccine at a rate of 95% plus, which is what wiser countries like Japan and Singapore will be getting, I think. We're lucky that our vaccines are so efficacious which mitigates a little the low acceptance problem.
     
    Pollycy likes this.
  10. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    29,922
    Likes Received:
    14,183
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    With my luck, even if I travelled to a state like yours, and managed to get permission to take the vaccination(s) there, I'd probably catch the damned virus somewhere along the way and end up in a hospital.

    Nah... for over a year we've just pretty much totally isolated ourselves at home, and so far, that has worked quite well. I go out once every three weeks or so to do shopping, and we do go for 'exercise walks' nearly every day. What a life. I guess we'll do that for ANOTHER two months while we wait for the state government and the pharmaceutical industry to start running this whole thing like they know what the hell they're doing. Maybe by Memorial Day they'll have something to say that they don't have to change or revise constantly afterwards....

    Thanks for 'being there', @CenterField . You've been a better source of information to me than ANYBODY in the government of the State of Colorado!
     
  11. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    56,376
    Likes Received:
    28,036
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It's like this. I don't believe people who make extraordinary claims without providing sufficient evidence. For instance, I don't care if an architect or engineer tells me that the World Trade Center was brought down by explosives if he or she fails to provide sufficient evidence of it. Such a claim from such a person without evidence is, at best, an argument from authority, and it would be unwise to accept it at face value.
     
  12. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2020
    Messages:
    9,882
    Likes Received:
    8,404
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You're welcome, buddy!
     
  13. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2011
    Messages:
    8,397
    Likes Received:
    2,566
    Trophy Points:
    113
    As to Wuhan and the virus, it's probably only safe to say that COVID was first identified following the Wuhan outbreak.

    •••••••••••••••

    MADRID (Reuters) - Spanish virologists have found traces of the novel coronavirus in a sample of Barcelona waste water collected in March 2019, nine months before the COVID-19 disease was identified in China, the University of Barcelona said on Friday.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idINKBN23X2HQ

    •••••••••••••••

    Researchers find coronavirus was circulating in Italy earlier than thought

    The Italian researchers' findings, published by the INT's scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

    A further SARS-CoV-2 antibodies test was carried out by the University of Siena for the same research titled "Unexpected detection of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies in the pre-pandemic period in Italy".

    It showed that four cases dating back to the first week of October were positive for antibodies, meaning they had got infected in September, Giovanni Apolone, a co-author of the study, told Reuters.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN27W1J2


    ••••••••••••••••••

    .....However, new findings published in the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases suggest that the coronavirus, known officially as SARS-CoV-2, had infected people in the U.S. even earlier.

    "SARS-CoV-2 infections may have been present in the U.S. in December 2019, earlier than previously recognized," the authors said.

    Researchers found coronavirus antibodies in 39 samples from California, Oregon, and Washington as early as Dec. 13 to Dec. 16. They also discovered antibodies in 67 samples from Connecticut, Iowa, Massachusetts, Michigan, Rhode Island, and Wisconsin in early January — before widespread outbreaks in those states.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...eeks-earlier-than-previously-known-study-says
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2021
  14. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    79,151
    Likes Received:
    53,668
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It Did. We've known this for a long time. Everyone with a brain saw through the Left's disinformation, the entire time.

    ‘Follow The Science’ Crowd Finally Admits Their COVID-19 Censorship Was Political.

    Trump was right again!
     
  15. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    153,055
    Likes Received:
    64,643
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Trump's CDC director wants to blame China for Trump's failures.... make sense

    wonder if he signed a Trump NDA too
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2021
  16. GlobalCitizen

    GlobalCitizen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2013
    Messages:
    8,333
    Likes Received:
    1,212
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Exactly how many labs in the world are studying coronaviruses? A dozen? Less? What are the odds of this nature spillover occurring a couple of blocks from one of these labs?
     
  17. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    68,085
    Likes Received:
    17,138
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Let's add the story told by the Dr. from China that clearly states the virus came from the Wuhan lab.
    I found it interesting that on Face the Nation this man talked to a former head of the CDC i think he was who said with no shame, oh we really don't need to know it's origin today.

    Anyway this expert Dr. from China again tells her story that was shut down to defeat Trump on American sources.

     
  18. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    68,085
    Likes Received:
    17,138
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    What is your evidence?
     
  19. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    79,151
    Likes Received:
    53,668
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You're wrong. COVID is not a Bat disease. It's similar to a Bat disease from a cave several hundred miles from Wuhan, but with a spike protein swapped in from an anteater like creature from Africa.

    This collecting of coronavirus, that do not infect humans and artificially altering them by swapping out spike proteins in order to create a coronavirus that will infect humans is exactly what "gain of function" research is. And this is conducted in Wuhan. And using only level 2 safety measures, roughly what you see in a dentists office. The inference to the best explanation has always been that the virus escaped these labs in Wuhan, especially since labs in China have repeatedly loosed diseases with their sloppy safety practices.

    "SARS has escaped four separate" times from "the same laboratory in Beijing.

    https://nationalpost.com/news/a-bri...m-labs-70s-chinese-pandemic-was-a-lab-mistake
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2021
  20. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    79,151
    Likes Received:
    53,668
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Uhh. Trump and Tom Cotton were right and the Left has no excuse for claiming that their claims were "debunked."

    Daily Mail: Coronavirus has the hallmarks of lab manipulation

    [​IMG]

    Which isn't surprising as that is exactly what this Lab in China does. And in an unexpected twist, Fauci helped fund this "research" with US taxpayer dollars, in Wuhan, because it was illegal to do in the US because it's too damn dangerous.
    What in the hell is wrong with our Universities? And why in the hell do we keep piling tax payer cash into them? We'll have 800,000 dead Americans by mid summer.

    And the Polluting Lying Outlaw Slavers of Beijing have been very busy covering their tracks with the help of Fake News, the giant Social Media Companies and a large segment of the Political Left that only lost control of the cover up, finally, in the last week, after 17 months of controlling the narrative, including with lying "fact checkers".
     
  21. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2020
    Messages:
    9,882
    Likes Received:
    8,404
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You're late to the game. I've changed my mind about this.
     
  22. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    32,044
    Likes Received:
    2,664
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    Actually....... the legal repercussions against China over the coming five to ten years might just surprise us.......
    but certain things need to happen in the USA first.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2021
  23. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    39,361
    Likes Received:
    15,136
    Trophy Points:
    113
    All you need is common sense. The virus is said to have originated in a market about a mile or so from a virology lab known for weaponizing viruses such as SARS. Prior it its release three employees of the lab came down with the disease and quickly disappeared. In the meantime they haven't found a single animal infected with COVID anywhere in the world. We know that because the lying Chinese would have named the animal if the bug had jumped from animal to humans. So that is the evidence score so far - Lab leak - 3, animal borne - 0
     
    Zorro likes this.
  24. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    79,151
    Likes Received:
    53,668
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Everyone with a brain, has known for 15 months that this came out of the Wuhan Labs.

    Fauci Always Knew: Fauci Sent Panicked Gain-of-Function E-mails to Staff in Early COVID Days.

    [​IMG]
    Liar
    Chimeric means parts from different animals.
    They engineered it to infect humans.
     
  25. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    39,361
    Likes Received:
    15,136
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So the problem isn't the application of common sense to the issue. It is, as always, Trump.
     

Share This Page