Gaza started shooting rockets on Israel cities again

I know, I know... if I was a Palestinian defender, I'd be embarrassed by Al Jazeera, too. The flagship of Arabic propaganda has no business sighting with Israelis, leave along making an example out of them

 

Al Jazeera clearly disagrees with you, with Huff and Puff and other liberal "sources". In this conflict, Israel has high moral ground, as is evident from Al Jazeera interview. You're not going to call Al Jazeera out for promoting Zionist agenda, will you?

Hey, maybe Al Jazeera' been secretly bought out by Rupert Murdock? You never know...

 

They are not a flagship of Arabic propaganda though - quite the opposite. You are putting all your eggs in the one basket and using Al Jazeera as some kind of lever in an attempt to bolster your ideological partisanship. I've used numerous sources - both Israeli and non Israeli - in support of the case that Israel targets Palestinian civilians.

 

But of course they are - in 99% of every topic concerning Palli - Israeli conflict, they site with Pallies.

 

They are not "Pallies" but Palestinian's. And your assertion that Al-Jazeera are biased in favour of the Palestinian's is factually false.

 

You refuse to deal with reality. Your refuse to debate the information given to you which was presented by Howard Schweber, an Associate Professor of Political Science and Law at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. You clearly cannot address the facts. I could say pigs were flying but it would not be true. This conversation is over.

 

Who is they? Read the title of the thread.

 

The OP is about Palestinians launching rockets into Israel; I'm staying on the subject, and you are not.

 

Yes, a group named after a top Hamas bomb maker. I don't see how this translates to the group being Hamas.

Better than your unsubstantive claim that Hamas fired the rockets. Not even Israel has claimed this, so I don't see how would know such information.

No, I'm saying that its pretty easy for militants to get their hands on various weapons. Jesus, the drug lords over here have a better arsenal than the Lebanese army.

 

You'll have to accept that some folks will swallow any amount of media/government propaganda if it suits their partisan agenda to do so. In such circumstances, the facts are incidental and critical faculties disappear into the ether.

 

I DIDN'T INTRODUCE A FALSE COMPARISON, I WAS RESPONDING TO BENDORS POST OF THE AL JAZEERAH ARTICLE.

and it seems you have not been paying attention - a few of dozens of independent reports:

http://eaworldview.com/2013/08/syria-video-feature-indiscriminate-airstrikes-and-the-assad-regimes-terror-bombing-tactics/

http://revolution-news.com/assad-regime-targets-liberated-civilian-areas-aleppo/

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/09/aleppo-azaz-al-qaeda-isis-syria-fsa-activist.html

So Assad deliberately targetting civilians is justified, but Israel's isn't, despite the FACT that Hamas and PLO militants are externally funded and supported and utilize terrorist tactics. Interesting........

Israel does not deliberately target civilians, although there will always be incidents in combat of that happening, sometimes by accident, sometimes deliberately, BUT NEVER AS DOCTRINE.

 

It seems that you did not pay attention to any of my links which reiterate that fact that there is no proof of Assad's culpability. Your links above do not prove Assad's culpability. It's not true that Israel doesn't target civilians. I have shown categorically that they do. You are clearly in denial.

 

If one is a racist this would be a valid point however, most intelligent people don't make assumptions based on skin color or DNA.

 

No, what seems to be lacking is any balance to your assessment. Sure there was confusion, sure there were differing accounts and "justifications", just like there was totally different accounts from the palestinians and UNWRA as to what happened.

Fact is, that physical EVIDENCE clearly shows that bombs landed outside the school (shrapnel of course penetrated it).
And as all to frequently, the number of deaths was also never verified and reports were conflicting.

One incident, two entirely different interpretations. It was a tragedy that shouldn't have happened, but it did.
And the reason it did was that Hamas had the balls to use the adjacent courtyard to launch an rocket attack. Ya think Hamas knew where they were operating from? Ya think Hamas figured the IDF wouldn't respond thereby keeping their shooters safe, or do you think Hamas said hey if they miss we score big propaganda points? Naturally they have never behaved like that before.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Fakhura_school_incident"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Fakhura_school_incident[/URL]

 

Civilian/military casualties during cast lead were less than one to one, the lowest of all militaries in known history. A testament to the humanity of the Israel Military.

Conversely, Palestinian warfare has a ratio of five civilians killed for every one IDF member. One of the highest in known history.

 

They certainly are missing a lot of them as their civilian casualty ratio is the lowest in recoded warfare.

 

I've explained the rationale as to why this isn't warfare in the sense you mean it. As I've outlined, it's a war on the Palestinian people and I have shown that to be the case.

 

Nope, it wasn't a tragedy which indicates error. It was a deliberate tragetted attack. Your apologism for the death of innocent civilians by terrorists shows no bounds.

 

Exactly how do you come by this internal IDF knowledge of a deliberate targetted attack?

Oh I thought so......

Your churlish jab not withstanding.

 

It's called logical deduction and the level of probability after ascertaining the available facts.

 

Gaza should be bombed until Haniia the Kalb will beg for his life.

 

I wonder who it is you vote for? Your "untermensch" mentality certainly fits in with these guys:

On January 9, 2009, Haaretz reported that Lt. Colonel Amir, commander of a combat engineers unit, had told Israeli TV:

"We are very violent. We are not shying away from any method of preventing casualties among our troops." (Amos Harel and Avi Issacharoff, 'Israel's three alternatives for the future of the Gaza war,' Haaretz, January 9, 2009; http://www.haaretz.com/hasen /spages/1053590.html)

Israeli media reported that their commanders are unsurprised by the heavy civilian toll - the priority was indeed the protection of IDF soldiers:

"For us, being cautious means being aggressive," one told Haaretz. "From the minute we entered, we've acted like we're at war. That creates enormous damage on the ground. I just hope those who have fled the area of Gaza City in which we are operating will describe the shock. Maybe someone there will sober up before it continues." (Amos Harel and Avi Issacharoff, 'Using aggressive tactics in Gaza to save soldiers' lives,' Haaretz, January 7, 2009; http://www.haaretz.com/ hasen/spages/1053401.html)

These are comments which define the methods and aims indicated by the term 'terrorism'.

On January 6, 2009 Israeli internal security minister Meir (*)(*)(*)(*)reet responded to the massive civilian casualties on BBC's Newsnight:

"The French say, 'La guerre comme la guerre'." (January 6, 2009; http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/ b00gnjlm/Newsnight_06_01_2009/)

War is indeed war, but the civilian population of Gaza is not at war - the Geneva Conventions protecting civilian life apply.

In 2008, (*)(*)(*)(*)reet suggested that residential Gaza neighbourhoods from which Hassam rockets were fired should be obliterated: "any other country would have already gone in and level [sic] the area, which is exactly what I think the IDF should do - decide on a neighborhood in Gaza and level it." (Attila Somfalvi, 'Sheetrit: We should level Gaza neighbourhoods,' Ynet, February 10, 2008; http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articl...504922,00.html)

He added: "We should let them know 'you have to leave, this area will be taken down tomorrow' and just take it down - that will show them we mean business."

Using violence to show a civilian population "we mean business" is, again, terrorism. Needless to say, (*)(*)(*)(*)reet was advocating major war crimes.

The then Prime Minister Ehud Olmert declared that Gazan civilians should not be allowed "to live normal lives"; and internal security minister Avi Dichter had previously demanded that Israel take action "irrespective of the cost to the Palestinians". (Jonathan Cook, 'Disappearing Palestine,' Zed Books, London, 2008, p.132).

 

I don't believe you have however, I have explained in detail with proof and facts why it is a declared war by the Palestinians on Israel and, how they refuse to move away from their official position of the destruction of Israel and, I have also explained in detail with facts and proof as to how and why it is a war on the governments rather than the people themselves. The invasion of Gaza with a less than one for one civilian death ratio in a built up area of that density proves this in spades as it is a phenomenal feat in minimizing civilian casualties while prosecuting a war not of Israel's making..

 

in other words pure speculation.

Based on prior history your "logical deduction" is contra-indicated.

As for available facts, you seem to be in possession of some that nobody else is. for instance, the school which you characterized as deliberately targetted, was not in fact deliberately targetted and the shells did not impact the school directly or are you suggesting that the Israelis are lousy shots so the schools must have been what they were aiming at?

 

John Ging, Director of UNRWA operations, said Israel knew it was targeting a UN facility, but hey, what does he know?

http://euobserver.com/foreign/27356

I expect the usual personal slurs and smears to follow in due course.

Residents said that the mortar fire had not come from the school compound, but from elsewhere in the neighborhood.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/08/world/middleeast/08scene.html?em

Defence for Children International-Palestine acting on behalf of witnesses stated that the area was quiet, and that adults and children were going about their daily business.

http://www.dci-pal.org/english/display.cfm?DocId=1235&CategoryId=1

But hey, what do these witnesses know, after all they are only 'untermensch', right?

This is set against a backdrop in which Israeli artillery shells had hit three United Nations-run schools being used as refugee centres, killing more than 50 people.

As I stated, the UN had informed the Israeli military that the schools were refugee centres - GPS coordinates were provided. Israeli forces knew what they were attacking and they knew the centres were packed with the same families they had previously told to leave their homes to avoid attack.

As I've also explained - and which you seem keen to want to avoid - is that in the case of the school in question the Israeli's had lied by stating that Hamas fighters had been firing from within it. When the claim became indefensible, it was quietly withdrawn in "private" briefings to Westerners - a retraction barely reported anywhere. (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=s0BRJS6WnMs)

You also conveniently overlook the fact that just prior to the launch of the ground offensive, Israel shelled Palestine Square, Gaza City's main shopping area, killing five Palestinians. They destroyed the American International School.

They also destroyed a mosque in Beit Hanoun during evening prayers killing a dozen people.

At least thirty civilians were killed in Zeitoun when a house was shelled the day after Israeli forces ordered 100Palestinians to shelter there (Mel Frykberg, 'Israel Fighting Also The UN,' January 10, 2009; http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=45364).

Only the gullible and/or terrorist apologists would swallow the idea that all these were accidents.

Also how do you square your denial of these atrocities with the statements of the IOF pigs that I quoted previously - comments which define the methods and aims indicated by the term 'terrorism'?

Let's have a reminder for the benefit of others:

"For us, being cautious means being aggressive. From the minute we entered, we've acted like we're at war. That creates enormous damage on the ground. I just hope those who have fled the area of Gaza City in which we are operating will describe the shock. Maybe someone there will sober up before it continues."

(Amos Harel and Avi Issacharoff, 'Using aggressive tactics in Gaza to save soldiers' lives,' Haaretz, January 7, 2009; http://www.haaretz.com/ hasen/spages/1053401.html)

Or how about the totally inappropriate comment from the internal security minister when responding to the massive civilian casualties on BBC's Newsnight on January 6, 2009?:

"The French say, 'La guerre comme la guerre'." (January 6, 2009; http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/ b00gnjlm/Newsnight_06_01_2009/)

The minister in question overlooked the fact that the civilian population of Gaza is not at war because the Geneva Conventions protecting civilian life apply.

Or how about the remark from the said minister In 2008, suggesting that residential Gaza neighbourhoods from which Hassam rockets were fired should be obliterated?:

"Any other country would have already gone in and level [sic] the area, which is exactly what I think the IDF should do - decide on a neighborhood in Gaza and level it."

(Attila Somfalvi, 'Sheetrit: We should level Gaza neighbourhoods,' Ynet, February 10, 2008; http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articl...504922,00.html)

He added: "We should let them know 'you have to leave, this area will be taken down tomorrow' and just take it down - that will show them we mean business."

Using violence to show a civilian population "we mean business" is, again, terrorism. Needless to say, the Israeli minister was advocating major war crimes.

What about the then Prime Minister Ehud Olmert declaration that Gazan civilians should not be allowed "to live normal lives"?

Or how about internal security minister Avi Dichter's remark demanding that Israel take action "irrespective of the cost to the Palestinians"?. (Jonathan Cook, 'Disappearing Palestine,' Zed Books, London, 2008, p.132).