God created sin - Change my mind

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Maquiscat, Apr 13, 2024.

  1. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Fantasies are fiction. And there is evidence that a Jesus existed. Many early people/historians refer to him in various ways and even the Jews acknowledge/d his existence. Most of the same refer to him being crucified. They do not mention that he was resurrected. .
     
  2. Mitty

    Mitty Newly Registered

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    So which Jewish records say he existed and was crucified?
    And what is your evidence that he didn't survive his crucifixion after only about six hours instead of two to six days, and then went fishing with his mates?
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2024
  3. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but I didn't create, imagine or conclude God anymore than I did the sun in the sky. God is, that God is. No, he isn't an earthy element to be passed around, observed and studied in the classroom. If all I have of you are your words, does that make you a phantom? And if you can prove your existence, that would require your intercession and whether or not you wanted to or if you saw purpose in it. It is the same with God. As for me, I didn't ask God to prove himself. I asked him a question. And he responded by answering that question and another which I didn't ask. He also proved me his existence beyond the questions answered. In so doing I knew the God is real, and that he answered my questions as opposed to myself. So there was no confusion.
     
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  4. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    If you have knowledge, share it.
    Does a divine being drown it's entire creation but for ark inhabitants?
    Lets pull this back to a simple yes or no and go from there.

    Unless divine is not defined as I know it, or you know it.

    Buddah encompasses a large part of the world people's beliefs.
    Most of Asia has no clue about this god of Abraham.

    So claiming the entire world has amnesia is sort of a cop out. Most have not heard about this abrahamic belief.
    Then everyone will have that knowledge and it can't be refuted.
    Hope isn't considered a real source of passing on knowledge. Hope is passing on a belief.

    If you have a belief, you and you alone only can share in that belief.
    How did the entire
     
  5. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Then give the actual facts of hell. Then your post might have some relevance.

    Hell is a Revelation made concept. Some 70 yrs after the crucifixtion.
    Jesus nor god ever talked about some hell or torment.
     
  6. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    So, you are arguing about that stuff without knowledge of those issues also?

    Everyone cherry picks to prove their points. That's the biggest issue with the bible book written over the course of 3000 yrs and authors of certain books likely dead by the time they were written.

    Likely, most of the bible is hand concocted heresay.
     
  7. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    If slime isn't what we originated from then what is it?
    Dirt?
     
  8. Mitty

    Mitty Newly Registered

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    But true believers can't cherry pick if they claim their book was divinely written or divinely inspired.
     
  9. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    The poster you responded to is not a true believer.

    but a former man of the cloth and now a non believer.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2024
  10. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is amusing.

    If free will did not exist, you would claim that God is responsible for all choices that humans make.
    But now you're making the argument that by allowing free will, God is responsible for sin.

    It seems to me what the issue actually boils down to is the question of why God allows sin. Can you agree with that?
     
  11. Mitty

    Mitty Newly Registered

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    But he still cherry picks and claims his story is factual about the reason Jesus was crucified by the Romans, and ignores other reasons as described in John 11:48-50, which make more sense than his hypothesis about breaking Jewish law, if the story about his crucifixion has any credibility.
     
  12. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    You made yourself from dirt? You should call and tell Ripley's Believe It Or Not.
     
  13. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  14. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    *I have shared what I know and not what I believe. What I believe is irrelevant.
    *Yes, God cleansed the earth with a flood. Similarly the scripture reads: "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son. That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." That too is a type of Ark. Only next time it will be with fire rather than water.
    *Who cares what people believe. The truth is what matters.
    *Yes, the whole world is a cult. God doesn't live in the Bible. He lives in heaven and in peoples hearts as much as he is given sway. There is no eternal life in the scriptures.
    * If you ate breakfast this morning. Do you believe you ate breakfast or do you know you ate breakfast? If you cannot distinguish between knowing and believing, then your life is a dream.
     
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  15. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    An obscure and unfathomable length of time is evolutions gravitas, not its proof. Human history is reality. The most basic characteristic of nature is its repetitiveness. The constant sun, the solar system going around it, the earth spinning, the waves lapping, the seasons rolling, every living thing with seed after its own kind, evaporation and condensation in perpetuity. But there are no creatures becoming human in testimony of evolution. The characteristic of evolution is out of character with nature. It hides and sheds its past like a snake. But even a snake remains a snake. Man is fragile, and utterly unsuited to nature. If we have evolved, it is an aberration. But we have persevered and dominated and even hurt the earth. This is all contrary to evolution. Is nature suicidal? No, nature abides. And evolution is just an idea without a home, the want of another God.
     
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  16. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Breaking Jewish law and traditions is why the Jews had him arrested.

    Jesus is generally quiet, does not defend himself, rarely responds to the accusations, and is found guilty of: violating the Sabbath law (by healing on the Sabbath); threatening to destroy the Jewish Temple; practicing sorcery, exorcising people by the power of demons; and claiming to be the Messiah.[2] He is then taken to Pontius Pilate, the governor of Roman Judaea, to be tried for claiming to be the King of the Jews.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanhedrin_trial_of_Jesus
     
  17. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    What was man created from?
    You say it wasn't slime, how do you know?
     
  18. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    What you know is not verifyable. Therefore it is only a belief.
     
  19. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    I'm not telling you what you should believe. I'm telling you what I know. What you do with it is up to you.
     
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  20. Mitty

    Mitty Newly Registered

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    That 's just one biblical hypothesis, which makes no sense since the Jews could have easily killed him themselves if the donkey-riding "King-of-the-Jews" had only done something naughty against Jewish law.
    The story in John 11:48-59, however, says that Jewish authorities made the donkey rider a scape-goat to avoid a potential Jewish uprising against the Roman occupation and thousands of Jews crucified again and Jerusalem destroyed, and as subsequently happened.

    If the story about the donkey rider has any credibility, then it's a matter of personal choice which reason for his execution you choose, and whether or not he then survived the crucifixion and went fishing with his mates. Personally I prefer the explanation in John 11:48-59 for the reason the Jewish authorities wanted the Romans to execute him as a public warning about uprisings against the Roman authorities as occurred when the donkey rider was supposedly born.
     
  21. Mitty

    Mitty Newly Registered

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    Either way, a woman wasn't created by cloning some rib tissue from a bloke.
     
  22. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You're simply making it up as you go. The Romans had no problems with Jesus. Show me on scripture that says they did. Pilatethe Roman Governor said 'i FIND NO FAULT IN THIS MAN'. TRhe Romans came down hard on at least 2 leaders who claimed to be the Messiah and led a group of men against the Romans. You read and quote but understand nothing..
     
  23. Mitty

    Mitty Newly Registered

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    That's just words in a book. Show us the Roman documents that they didn't find fault in the donkey rider and kowtowed to the Jewish authorities.
    And that's why the Jewish authorities wanted the Romans to execute the donkey rider to avoid an uprising and thousands of Jews being crucified again and Jerusalem destroyed, as subsequently occurred. And if he'd only done something naughty against Jewish law then the Jewish authorities would have executed him and not the Roman authorities. Show me the Roman and Jewish documents that they did. You read and quote but understand nothing..
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2024
  24. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I've said this before. Under Roman Law they were subject to the Jews had no right to execute anyone.. That's why they came to Pilate. If you onl;y studied the Gospels you would see that Jesus exposed the hypocrisy of the religious heirarchy. He was drawing the people to a less strict teaching of 'Moses' laws. Their authority was waning. When Caiaphas is supposedly quoting 'one man dying for the nation' he was talking about stopping the people being drawn from THEIR - the official' teaching - lessening their authority. They simply believed Jesus was leading the people astray and to prevent this he should die. The only people who could kill him was the Romans.

    And everything you have shown me are words in a book. A study of the ancient world of Palestine against the writing of the gospels would help you.

    I'm finished. You keep repeating things that are obviously not true and beyond your understanding.
     
  25. Mitty

    Mitty Newly Registered

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    Were you there, or do you have any actual Roman or Jewish documents to support your personal opinion about a book which was written in Greek decades after the supposed events, with numerous contradictions and inconsistencies and imaginative embellishments and untruths?

    Either way, if you actually studied the gospels you would see that the story in John 11:48-50 says that the Jewish authorities decided to get the Roman authorities to crucify the donkey riding "King of the Jews" as a public warning instead of killing him themselves, in order to avoid a potential Jewish uprising and thousands of Jewish people crucified again and Jerusalem destroyed, and as subsequently occurred. And if he'd done something naughty against Jewish law then they would have executed the donkey rider themselves.

    You keep repeating things that are just your personal opinion and beyond your understanding.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2024

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