Gold hits record high on debt fears and chance of more Fed stimulus

When did anyone say there was anything intrinsically special about copper? It's just smarter than some other things to invest in because it's probably not as likely to crash nearly as soon (if ever) as gold and platinum etc.

But that obviously only applies to this point in time. Back in 2002, it would be extremely good to invest in gold etc. But now would be extremely risky and overall not as good of an idea as copper.

 

WTF are you on about?

My premise is that demand/supply drives prices and demand just increased considerably.

 

Indeed, Gold and silver are probably overpriced by 50%. Copper on the other hand is still under priced.

 

Copper is not an official precious metal. The only ones are gold, silver, platinum and palladium (to my knowledge).
If you disagree, please take it up with whoever decides these things. I really don't care that much.

I believe I said gold is in a boom, not a bubble.

But whatever it is in, it will fall one day.

But not before the threat of inflation/dollar devaluation diminishes. And with a money printer like Bernanke at the Fed and Washington/other gov't's running huge deficits - that is not going to end anytime soon.

But when it does; when Bernanke FINALLY stops printing money and starts to significantly raise interest rates...then I will sell my silver immediately. And my gold soon after.

 

Gold/silver are not normal commodities. They are safe havens.

Investors only (primarily) use them when there is uncertainty or inflationary fears.

Once the fear passes, people leave the safe haven.

It does not matter what gold is worth 'normally' to most investors. What matters are the economic uncertainties.

Anyone that is buying gold/silver today, to hold for life, is going to get burned eventually; yes.

But NO ONE that understands the gold/silver market is doing that.

They are all in it for strictly the short term - though that could end up being years if this economic mess continues as it is.

 

OKay. But most investors consider Gold and esp Silver to have been in a bubble for months now.

Like a poster said above the time to have purchased gold was in 1999. If you had you would see a 400% increase. The rationale for buying gold is based on the possibility of a worst case scenario like the unraveling of the Weimar Currency in the 30's.

But at today's prices gold really isn't as safe a haven as copper, corn etc. Things people actually need.

FWIW the other two "safe haven" assets are the US dollar and US bonds. That is not choice company imo.

 

Actually, the time to have bought gold was around '02, not '99 - but hindsight is 20/20.

Investors? Most investors completely missed both the dot.com and the housing crashes before they were upon us.
One thing is for sure, if most 'investors' say to do something - do the opposite.

As for how gold and silver will do over the coming months/years?

We shall see.

 

http://www.timesunion.com/news/article/C...z1S5a2XjVT

http://www.kcra.com/r/28529084/detail.html

http://www.floridatoday.com/article/2011...emic-grows

http://www.walb.com/story/14943426/metal...t-business

http://www.walb.com/story/15037036/coppe...tion-pivot

 

http://www.apmex.com/

http://www.monex.com/

http://www.bulliondirect.com/

If you check their lists, you will not see copper listed anywhere.

If you have a beef with that - I suggest you contact them.

Personally, I don't really care that much whether it is or is not.


BTW, 4 of your 5 links did not work for me. And the other led to an article about vineyards or something.

 

They were all news articles about folks stealing copper in the US and many millions of dollars in ag losses as a result.

 

Oh.

I assumed they were links to articles saying how copper is an official precious metal, since you quoted that sentence of mine in your post.

I assumed wrong.

 

No, your premise is that buyers are smarter than sellers, who apparently don't know what you know and hence don't take it into consideration in setting the price, thus reducing any future rises.

But sellers do know what you know -- you just posted it! And if they know that the price is going up (fer sure), their sale price will reflect that, and then guess what, the buyer won't be able to sell it at a higher price.

In short, the market for commodities is self-correcting from the get go and nobody can predict whether if they buy at price A, they will be able to sell at price A+X.

 

What the hell makes the important difference between having the title of an "official 'precious' metal" and just a metal that has a lotta value?

Rather arbitrary and useless.

 

Metal mysticism is rife. Just look at this thread, which makes breathless claims about gold being special.

 

Which is why some people sell things even if they seem to be consistently increasing in value.

 

It depends on the period of time that you wanna make X amount of money within. If you're like me for example and you think "well I could make a lot of money after 50 years but by then I'll be old and wrinkly and bald and girls won't want me even with a lotta dough, so who cares?", then what the flip flying motherfu*k would be the point in investing in something(s) that gradually increase in relative value such that it will make you a lot of money, but only in the long run?

On the other hand, if you're wanting (perhaps a smaller) buck right now or close to right now, you have to usually take a larger risk because things which quickly rise in relative value don't usually sustain such growth for as long of a period of time as things that increase more gradually. Which makes sense.

 

Who here said it was an important difference?

I certainly do not think it is.

But someone said it was and I thought it best to show that officially it is not, more for accuracy then for anything else.

 

Why did you ask about whether it was "officially" a "precious" metal?

 

This is by the way the End All And Be All remark of any discussion on economics, period.

Just letting y'all know

 

Sheesh.

I didn't ask. I corrected him when he said it was.

Look, he said it was 'precious'.

'Officially' it is not (at least yet).

So, like when someone says such and such is something it is not, they are often corrected.

Does not mean it is important, just people being sticklers for accuracy I guess.

Are we all done with this - as you said - useless point yet?

 

Yup. Look at my previous post and you'll see the underlying importance behind this whole shi-bang.

 

Then I guess central bankers are no smarter then sellers as well.

According to this short video - ETF's and many of the world's central banks have already bought more gold this year then during all of last year:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...ideo/whos-buying-all-the-gold/article2097257/


I have said it before; and I mean no offense, but if someone says that you cannot predict (relatively speaking) whether commodities will go up or down; that just means that they do not know enough about commodities.

 

Yeah, maybe on planet ZULU.

In the real world whatever capacity for self correction the market has is modulated by TIME, and you can make money if you have good timing.

For example 3 month contracts on copper futures, heavily leveraged, are a sure thing if you buy them now. I would bet half of my net worth that the same is true of 2 contracts as well.

Copper is only gonna go up and the ability to buy futures is an end around your silly market self correction falacy.

On the other hand buying gold futures today is crazy. The bubble could pop any day, week, or month.

 

good catch.

 

as I have said many times....gold will keep rising until interest rates finally rise to purge the system!