Good News From Italy?

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by LafayetteBis, Mar 18, 2020.

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  1. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Harsh to says, if you have to listen one conference, I think that's one is the best :

    At the opposite of Soviet union however China manage much more to provide comfort and food to their society, and as long as people are distracted enough, they rarely revolt. French revolution started first because of the price of the bread, all that things around democracy and human right came after.
     
  2. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    NEED MORE BE SAID?

    Any hospital that runs like a machine-shop, I, for one, will not go in it.

    Healthcare is not in the least comparable in terms of management with any other service. Because at its heart is the value of "life" itself. For better or worse but never forever.

    Thus, healthcare most certainly is a vital Public Service. Or should be.

    And, to my mind, the fact that average lifespan in the US is 79 whilst 83 in Europe is a solid indication of that truth. Go here, see the lifespan vs country infographic. Note where yours in the US is (at 78.6).Compare it with France (82.6). Mine is four-years longer than yours.

    Need more be said ... ?
     
  3. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sadly, they are all run like machine shop, private or public, since they have to report to either their investors or the government. Money doesn't grow on trees and human ressources aren't infinite.
     
  4. Pycckia

    Pycckia Well-Known Member

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    3.4% of diagnosed cases of Wuhan virus have died but we don't know how many have been infected and not diagnosed, although I have just read that 86% of the cases are asymptomatic. I suggest that the 3.6% mortality rate is more like 0.5%
     
  5. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    From the WorldoMeter here: Age of Coronavirus Deaths - Fatality Rate by Age

    Excerpt:
    *Death Rate = (number of deaths / number of cases) = probability of dying if infected by the virus (%)
    *For those 80 or plus, the death rate is 14.8% (of all cases)
    *For those 60 or plus, the death rate is 3.6% (of all cases)
    *For those in their fifties, it is 1.3% (of all cases)
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2020
  6. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Generalization based upon a false precept.
     
  7. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LOL... Public health services have a budget to respect just like the private market. They can't go over budget without a new budget being voted on unless there's an emergency like we have now. Which mean that year to year they have to keep only a set amount of bed opens to provide for 100% of normal usage.
     
  8. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And just like that, "Papers, please" is once again commonly heard in Europe.
     
  9. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Most Chinese people have never heard of Tiananmen Square.
     
  10. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    China isn't even close to being the only place with wet markets and creation of new human disease.

    And, suggesting that China or other countries should jump forward by half a century is just plain ridiculous. NOBODY thinks that's the way it works. In fact, we have plenty of people in the USA who think we should disband the FDA - our own first line of defense on this problem.

    Let's remember that those in China's government who didn't get the news out lost their jobs.
     
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  11. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's 2020 in China too.
     
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  12. James Knapp

    James Knapp Well-Known Member

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    I’m not saying they are the only ones but they seem to be developing a habit
     
  13. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    China needs no defending on this. They plainly ****ed it up and will keep on ****ing it up for the foreseable future since there isn't any alternative to the ccp. They dazzle the gullible with images of modern cities while 90% of the population lives in shack at subsistance level travelling far and wide to work like slaves in ccp owned factories. Their hygene is terrible, even comparable to sub-sahara africa.
    Stop watching and believing CCP propaganda, heck it's even worst than what the stalinist were trying to make us believe in the early 50's.
     
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  14. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    This isn't a development.

    Wet markets have been around since the very first markets.

    And, China isn't the only place where the result has been crossovers from animals, etc. MERS didn't come from China. Ebola, Dengue, black plague, etc., etc. didn't come from China.

    It's no more than insulting for us to sit here with our FDA and various levels of regulation and policing and blame much of the rest of the world for NOT being rich.

    China's gdp per capita is about 1/7 of ours. But, they are growing far more rapidly and will be able to solve this problem as they overtake us.

    Then, we can worry about the ME, India, SE Asia, Africa, South America, etc.
     
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  15. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    No, those who f'd up got taken out of governmnet. They DO have "alternatives" to leadership.

    And, blaming them for having a far lower gdp per capita is a little crazy, isn't it?

    Let's remember that China discovered the problem in December. And, WE wasted at least 2 months since then - with all our super smart capitalism, CDC, communications capability, freedom, super smart government, etc.
     
  16. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    They are NOT "developing a habit".

    The very idea that China isn't seriously interested in fighting COVID and anything else similarly serious is abject BS. Look what it's done to China.

    They are developing approaches to recognizing such problems earlier and combating them immediatelly.
     
  17. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    XI is still there and he's the boss. They don't have alternative, only the CCP controls everything.
    CHina didn't communicate **** until it was too late. They also refused entry to international expert. They are still not sharing all the info and trying to cover things up.
     
  18. James Knapp

    James Knapp Well-Known Member

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    2 epidemics in 20 years is unheard of. They are a danger to the world.
     
  19. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The problem was at the local level.

    Information was kept from Xi.

    Your suggestion is no better than suggesting that they can't choose another form of government - which we can't do, either.

    And, it was NOT "too late" for us to start a response. When we delayed for 2 months, that is TOTALLY on us.

    China appears to have about 1 new case per day. And, you have no basis for suggesting they are lying about that. Their actions have been FAR more draconian that ours - to a level that we could actually not legally do. There is little to no reason to believe that hasn't worked.
     
  20. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    You seem to be unaware of how big China is - or you're not applying statistics.

    MERS came out of the ME. What's the population comparison between China and the ME?

    Ebola came out of a small region in Africa. What's the comparison between China and that region in Africa?

    We should expect this kind of problem arising from wherever there as similar conditions.

    And, countries with these conditions don't have the wealth required to end such conditions.

    They don't have FDA coverage and enforcement. And, they can't shut down their food industry.
     
  21. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    Yes I've been thinking that, this is a bloody good practice run for the next one which might be as deadly as the black death or Spanish flu.
     
  22. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    The trouble is that the shutdown was so effective that up to 95% of the population has not yet been exposed to the virus and as restrictions are lifted the rates of infection will start to rise again.
     
  23. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I would not yet propose to guess at what China will do.

    I agree if they just opened it up, they would see continued growth.

    If they have tests, they may do something else.
     
  24. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

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    Anyone thinking that total shutdown is a complete cure and life can go back to normal in a short length of time is going to be disappointed.
    The best we can hope for is a series of small waves leading to herd immunity or a time when a vaccine is available.
     
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  25. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    True.

    China reports zero new cases - down from about 1/day.

    Of course, the USA is not going to force people to take action.

    So, we still have people like Hannity, Fallwell, Sen. Ron Paul, Rushbo, a couple of TV doctors and others telling us that what Trump and the CDC are saying is either totally unnecessary or absolute garbage quite possibly politically motivated. And, we have a president who is uninterested in opposing their message.
     

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