Government pays $400,000 per electric school bus

I was listening to NPR and they were talking about how the Infrastructure Act is paying for all-electric buses for school.

This refers to the U.S. Investment and Jobs Act, passed in late 2021, but the reporter only kept referring to it as the "Bipartisan Infrastructure Act" throughout the story.
I found this to be misleading and dishonest, because arguably the act was not really so genuinely "bipartisan". (It was really more of a Democratic Party initiative, and many Republican lawmakers got coerced into voting for it because it was the only way they could get a big spending bill to pass. And not only that but most of the spending in the act was not really on what most would consider infrastructure, rather it funded a range of progressive pet projects)

But the thing that really stood out about the story was the cost of these buses. A typical electric bus costs $375,000, which is three to four times the amount a normal new diesel bus costs.

And that doesn't even include the added cost of charging infrastructure, which can cost from $10,000 to $30,000.

But the news story did not seem to focus on this too much. The news story focused on how people liked the new buses and presented it as good thing.

Well of course they are going to think of it as a good thing if someone else is providing it to them for free! But the thing is, these buses are not really "free". The taxpayers are paying for them.

I think it's obvious no school would be buying these buses if they had to pay for them. Not even in the most progressive pro-environment areas.

The news story did not cover this, but I would imagine these electric buses probably only have a lifespan of about 9 or 10 years before the batteries need to be replaced. For an electric bus, that is going to cost $50,000 to $75,000.

The school is still not going to care about that if the bus is provided to them for free. Since even with those extra costs added on, it would still seem cheaper to them than the cost of having to buy a new bus. But this does show how expensive these electric buses are, in total costs (which the taxpayers will be paying for one way or another).

The main political reason for pushing these electric buses is the belief that they can help prevent climate change.
But did anyone ever bother to think or try doing the calculations to see if the cost is actually worth it?
The government cannot afford to give one of these new electric buses to every school, only around 5000 buses will be provided by this Infrastructure Act.

Is this actually a good use of money? I mean per bus? Are we thinking logically about this?

The electric bus does have a shorter driving range.
The reporter interviewed on bus driver, who is the Transportation Supervisor, who said he gets what some call "range anxiety" on his long, rural routes; one time his battery got down to 8%. "When you start getting that low, you start to kind of panic a little bit, especially when you got kids on board."

There are also challenges that are specific to rural districts. Because their routes are so long, the Ralls County drivers sometimes park their school buses at their homes overnight, cutting down on their overall driving time, which is regulated by the state. That's not possible with the electric buses that need to be charged at the district’s bus garage overnight.
"It cuts into drivers' time; it's less time that our drivers are on the road too, especially when you run into rural communities."
That, along with a technical issue that took one of the buses out of service early on, makes it hard for Eric Joiner to recommend the vehicles.

"Still he says this program has been great for cash strapped rural school districts."

So the schools appreciate getting the buses. But the main reason they appreciate getting the buses is because they do not have money to afford a regular diesel bus, let alone what an electric bus would cost. I bet the schools would be happier if they were given two normal buses instead of one electric bus.

And these electric buses are really not the best suited for rural areas. It might be more logical to have provided a free electric bus to a city school, and then taken the diesel bus from the city school in exchange to provide it to the rural school.

To be fair, it is true that these electric buses have some advantages, less noisy, less maintenance needed, and cleaner with no unpleasant diesel exhaust fumes around the children. But all that still barely justifies the huge price.

Electric buses are coming to a school near you -- but are they more than a fad? by Kate Grumke, Harvest Public Media, January 29, 2024
New electric school buses hit rural roads in Midwest | KCUR - Kansas City news and NPR

 

Nothing about EVs is rational at this point. Progressives won the back channel to make it happen 40 years ago and the technical fraud to make it happen 17 years ago.

But the end for that nonsense is coming and with it, the end of scams like this.

Go Loper!

 

Someone should look at who profits from these buses.
Sooner or later its all about the money.

 

That's easy. Start with Joe Biden (aka Mr. Ban Internal Combustion Engines by 2035) and follow the political corruption from there.

 

Let's look at a real study

https://www.publicpower.org/periodical/article/electric-buses-mass-transit-seen-cost-effective:

And while electric buses are still more expensive that fossil fueled buses, electric buses can provide cost savings over the long run. An average diesel transit bus costs around $500,000, compared with $750,000 for an electric bus, and a diesel school bus costs around $110,000 compared with $230,000 for an electric school bus, according to the report.

Over its lifetime, however, an electric bus could save $400,000 in fuel expenses and $125,000 in averted maintenance costs, according to figures from bus manufacturer New Flyer that were cited in the report. Electric buses could provide fuel and maintenance savings of up to $50,000 a year over fossil fuel powered buses, resulting in a five year payback period, according to estimates from another bus manufacturer, Proterra, cited in the report. Electric buses have significantly fewer parts than fossil fuel buses. They do not have an exhaust system, their braking systems last longer, and they do not require oil changes

Also, just like electric cars, electric buses will continue to come down in price.

 

That seems to be very different from the facts I am pulling up.

"diesel-fueled school buses can range anywhere from $140,000 to $160,000 depending on the type."​

source: How Much Does a School Bus Cost? The Cost of a School Bus (gregorypoole.com)

"A diesel bus currently costs $165,990." (Seattle area in WA state)​

source: Electric School Buses - Mercer Island School District 400

From what I'm seeing, the cost to replace a diesel engine in a school bus (the most major lifetime maintenance expense) might be about $7,000 to $14,000.
The lifespan of a diesel engine is around 400,000 miles, which happens to be about double the projected lifespan of electric vehicle batteries.

 

Don't forget the cost of charging that bus.
You know, with fossil fueled power generation.

 

I charge my PHEV with renewable energy. No reason a trucking company couldn't do the same. I worked for a company in Newark, NJ; and they covered their entire flat roof (probably a couple acres) with solar panels.

 

But we're not discussing PHEV's. The topic is EV buses.

 

I related it. Looking for just about anything, with your poor track record?

 

Tsk tsk.
"A fly, Sir, may sting a stately horse and make him wince; but, one is but an insect, and the other is a horse still."

--Samuel Johnson

 

And —- The fly is attracted to horse s***.

 

Just another insult.

 

And you're aware of the environmental impact of solar cells?
What they need to refine to make them?

There are no environmentally neutral energy sources on earth.
None.

What we have are trade offs.

The technology for internal combustion engines is still far superior to EV, hybrid, and pedal cars.
I saw a thing that said a lawnmower, mowing a typical lawn, spews as much pollution as driving a car 45 miles.
Nonsense.
I own a gas lawn mower, gas weed eater, gas blower, gas power washer and a gas snow blower. I mow a typical sized lawn weekly, use my trimmer and blower almost every week, and when it snows, I clear the sidewalks and driveways for 17 homes on my block and the next block.
On an annual basis I use no more than 8 gallons of gas for all of that.
Driving my car or truck 45 miles will use 1.5 to 2 gallons of gas.

I don't care what magic math they used to come up with their shocking statistic, but my experience calls BS on them.

My neighbor owns all electric lawn equipment and a Tesla.
And solar. His roof is all solar.
He was complaining about his electric bill.
It runs almost 3X what mine is.
All of our power from the utility is fossil fuel generated.

They also want me to get rid of my gas stove.
Cause, you know, it's killing me.
Well, they can have my gas stove when they pry it out of my cold, dead, fingers.

 

Have you ever driven an electric car? Have you used some of the newer lawn equipment? I’m worn out before the battery wears out. Perhaps you are trapped in a paradigm. I have solar panels and a residential wind turbine and I have a surplus every month. And that includes my vehicle.

 

Now this is a pretty cool concept - “Wireless EV charging”. It’s being touted for buses in Norway. A receiver would have to be installed on the bus, to take up the electromagnetic energy. If they can perfect this, you can just drive on certain roads and gain charge!

https://yocharge.com/news/norways-wireless-ev-charging-roads-a-game-changer/

Norway is making significant strides in sustainable transportation with the installation of its first wireless charging road for electric vehicles (EVs) in Trondheim. This innovative project features a 100-meter segment embedded with copper coils beneath the road surface, allowing electric vehicles to charge while in motion. The pilot program is set to last for one year, during which the system’s performance and efficiency will be rigorously tested.
…
The primary goal of this pilot project is to determine whether the wireless charging technology can serve as the sole energy source for the electric buses. By allowing buses to charge while driving, the initiative seeks to reduce carbon emissions and enhance the efficiency of public transport systems. Additionally, the system will be evaluated under Trondheim’s severe winter conditions to assess its resilience and reliability in extreme weather scenarios.