Guns in Idaho: Common misconceptions

Discussion in 'Firearms and Hunting' started by Robert, Jun 18, 2019.

  1. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    The LV shooter had a pilot’s license. How many would have died had he gone that route?
     
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  2. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    Nope.... again define an assault rifle to distinguish it from others rifles.
    BTW... prior to the US adopting the .223, I used the cartridge that was it’s ballistic clone, .224, for varmint control; I was prohibited in most states for legally using it for deer hunting... still the case.
     
  3. Woolley

    Woolley Well-Known Member

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    First of all, this man does use the weapon to hunt but he is a sportsman and does not shoot like a crazed murderer in a Vegas Hotel. It begs the question then why have the legal right to have this capacity when all it is used for is fun, drinking and blowing the **** out of stuff with your buddies just because you can. Second, hunting is different then killing. Hunting is about more then the kill shot as any hunter knows. A retort like yours is like meat fishing with 10 hooks. Its fishing but its no sport and no respectable fisherman thinks it is anything but meat fishing. Same thing with hunting. If all you want is meat, buy it at the grocery store. Lastly, the 2nd includes regulation. I merely claim that these weapons should be regulated. Do you know the difference?
     
  4. Woolley

    Woolley Well-Known Member

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    Correct but we all agree to regulate the hell out of that truck, the driver, the road, the right to drive, the gas, the tires, the safety of the vehicle and what happens when you run into that deer. If you want to hunt, hunt. If you want to kill, admit it and lets get on with a more adult conversation about guns and their ability to kill indiscriminately.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
  5. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No we don't.

    There are no regulations that stop people from driving without insurance, driving drunk, or using a vehicle to commit mass murder.

    Guns have the same safety features to prevent accidental shootings the same way vehicles have features to prevent accidental crashes.
     
  6. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    Full power? What does that mean? What firearms cartridges are not ‘Full Power’? Is not a .22 lr cartridge full power? Do you know something much of the firearms knowledgeable people don’t know? Tell us, I love secret knowledge.
     
  7. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    If you don't understand the topic and terminology save yourself the embarrassment and just stay out of it
     
  8. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    Complete BS. What grain ball and how much powder in each?
     
  9. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    It’s you that has no understanding. I have over 50 years of knowledge and experience and put my self through college and graduate school hunting, gun smithing, and building/selling black powder rifles. You are out of your depth, operating on empty. I knew more than you know now before I was 14 years of age and built a Sten MKII in my uncle’s shop using a pilfered copy of the plans that the allies seeded all over occupied Europe in WWII. You want to go head to head on firearms knowledge? Bring it on. But, first define for me what a ‘full power’ load is...should be easy given your knowledge of ‘the topic and terminology’. While you are at it, where’s your definition of an assault rifle?
    Sure now, BS, eh? You don’t have the capacity to understand the variables involved, and they are far more than than the just the cartridge combination of the projectile, the type of propellant (why is that important?), or the load. Let's see if you can figure the variables and, as importantly the use cases. You can baseline with .223 or .224 and while you are at it is 5.56 and .223 completely interchangeable? For the variables mentioned, what are the considerations for .55gr .223 vs 72gr .223?
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
  10. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Did any of those regulations serve to prevent the attack in the city of Nice from occurring? Do any of those regulations serve to prevent any motor vehicle-related deaths from occurring?

    Anything and anyone has the ability to kill indiscriminately.
     
  11. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Do the physical capabilities of a firearm dictate how they are used? Does the individual operating the firearm have no ability of their own to control their own actions?

    Why are motor vehicles built to travel many times faster than the legal established speed limits? There are no legitimate purposes to have such capabilities. The only possible reason for the ability to travel one hundred and fifty miles an hour is to escape law enforcement.

    Is the animal killed? Is it gutted and chopped up into portions while it is still alive and kicking?

    All firearms are already subject to strict and significant regulations. Chief among them is the regulation that the use of a firearm for criminal purposes such as murder is an illegal activity devoid of any constitutional protection.
     
  12. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    You didn't answer the question. Why would that be?

    Your claim was that a .223 round was nearly identical to a .224 plinker and for all your supposed experience couldn't compare propellant and bullet weight of each. Odd huh?

    And if you have all that experience you certainly wouldn't be questioning the term "full power rifle cartridge" especially considering military weapons

    https://gunhub.com/gun-talk/57683-what-full-power-rifle-cartridge.html
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
  13. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    His point was that "full power" isn't a good term to use. He understands the terminology, and that is the reason for his comment--the misuse of this terminology. For example, you can buy .22 LR in varying power levels. Are none of those "full power"?
     
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  14. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    There are a variety of .22 centerfires. Some are a bit weaker than the .223/5.56, some are a bit more powerful. The point is the .223 isn't really that special. It was close to identical to the .222 Remington Magnum, it's a bit more powerful that the .222 Remington, and it's a good bit weaker than the .22-250 and the .220 Swift. It is essentially a .22 varmint round.

    You can look up any of these cartridges from this wiki:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rifle_cartridges
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
  15. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is no "right to drive".

    All of the regulations you mentioned are to prevent ACCIDENTS. Firearms have the same regulations in design such as prevention of accidental discharge.

    Yes I have killed, because often killing is necessary for life. It could be animals for food or an RPG wielding lunatic that wants to destroy western culture, or three guys who want to kick down your door and rape your wife and kids.

    There are something like 365 million firearms in this country, and of the ones used to commit murder, it is nearly always someone who is illegally in possession of a firearm.

    When you look at the list of mass shooters, I would guess that 90%+ of them were preventable....had the government done it's job using laws it already has.

    With 365 million firearms and 13 thousand illegal usages of those firearms, we have an incredibly small number of them being used in the manner you suggest.

    Firearm accidents are lower than they have ever been.

    The problem is, as the problem has always been, criminals.
     
  16. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Compared to other centerfire rifle cartridges that are in the same caliber range, the round in question is indeed quite weak.
     
  17. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    Regardless it is a military man killer and nothing like a .22 plinker
     
  18. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    uh no it has more in common with the 22LR or 22 magnum cartridge than the 30.06 or 7.62X54R etc cartridges.
     
  19. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Exaggerate much? "military man killer" :roflol:

    The other person wasn't claiming it was like a .22 LR. He was claiming it was like a varmint round, which is essentially what it is. The thing is, the majority of popular cartridges before the last 20 years or so are military cartridges. The .30-06, the .308, the 9mm, the .45, etc. Most of the rest are derivatives from those former (and current) military cartridges. So what? That's the way it's been since guns were first used by civilians. Citizens use military weapons and their close derivatives. There isn't something magically evil and powerful about military cartridges.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
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  20. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    I did not refer to either cartridge in the context of plinking.

    Your skirting the issue of ‘full power’ illustrates your wealth of ignorance.
    As for ‘propellent’ and bullet weight’ of each, of each what? Do you suppose their is only one standard load for each round of .223 or .224? Really? What are they? Enlighten us. Just for .223, discounting hand loads, how many variations do you figure exist for the .223? Which one is ‘full power’? Or is their no .223 considered a ‘full power’?
    What diameter bullet is most often used for the .223?
    How many bullets of what weight are available in factory loads?

    Share your knowledge. Mystify me and prove I don’t know what I am talking about.

    BTW, is a .45cal acp round ‘full Power’? How about a round designated .45 acp +P, or .45 Super, or .450 SMC, all of which share the same case dimensions and can chamber in a .45 acp 1911? Are they all safe to shoot in a 1911?

    BTW...the discussion you linked to relative to ‘full power’ serves to illustrate the silliness of terminology and the total lack of consensus. It is meaningless.
     
  21. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    So, the military doesn’t use .22 lr? .22 lr...a non lethal round? Not a ‘military’ man killer?
     
  22. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    The round in question was based on a small game hunting cartridge that existed over a decade prior.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.222_Remington

    Type Rifle
    Place of origin United States
    Service history
    In service
    1950
    Production history
    Manufacturer
    Remington
    Specifications
    Case type
    Rimless, bottleneck
    Bullet diameter .224 in (5.7 mm)
    Neck diameter .253 in (6.4 mm)
    Shoulder diameter .357 in (9.1 mm)
    Base diameter .376 in (9.6 mm)
    Rim diameter .378 in (9.6 mm)
    Rim thickness .045 in (1.1 mm)
    Case length 1.700 in (43.2 mm)
    Overall length 2.130 in (54.1 mm)
    Case capacity 26.9 gr H2O (1.74 cm3)
    Rifling twist 1 in 14 in (360 mm)
    Primer type Small rifle
    Maximum pressure ) 50,000 psi (340 MPa)

    Ballistic performance


    Bullet mass/type Velocity Energy
    40 gr (3 g) HP 3,583 ft/s (1,092 m/s) 1,141 ft⋅lbf (1,547 J)
    50 gr (3 g) SP 3,168 ft/s (966 m/s) 1,115 ft⋅lbf (1,512 J)
    55 gr (4 g) SP 3,095 ft/s (943 m/s) 1,170 ft⋅lbf (1,590 J)
    60 gr (4 g) VMax 2,937 ft/s (895 m/s) 1,150 ft⋅lbf (1,560 J)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.223_Remington

    Type Rifle
    Place of origin United States
    Production history
    Designer
    Remington Arms
    Designed 1962
    Produced 1964–present
    Variants .223 Ackley Improved, 5.56×45mm NATO
    Specifications
    Parent case
    .222 Remington
    Case type Rimless, bottleneck
    Bullet diameter 0.224 in (5.7 mm)
    Neck diameter 0.253 in (6.4 mm)
    Shoulder diameter 0.354 in (9.0 mm)
    Base diameter 0.376 in (9.6 mm)
    Rim diameter 0.378 in (9.6 mm)
    Rim thickness 0.045 in (1.1 mm)
    Case length 1.76 in (45 mm)
    Overall length 2.26 in (57 mm)
    Rifling twist 1 in 12 inch (military-style rifles use 1:7 to 1:10 to stabilize longer bullets)
    Primer type Small rifle
    Maximum pressure (small arms ammunition pressure testing 55,000 psi (380 MPa)
    Maximum pressure (small arms ammunition pressure testing 62,366 psi (430.00 MPa)
    Maximum CUP 52000 CUP

    Ballistic performance

    Bullet mass/type Velocity Energy
    36 gr (2 g) JHP 3,750 ft/s (1,140 m/s) 1,124 ft⋅lbf (1,524 J)
    55 (3.5 g) Nosler ballistic tip 3,240 ft/s (990 m/s) 1,282 ft⋅lbf (1,738 J)
    60 (3.9 g) Nosler partition 3,160 ft/s (960 m/s) 1,330 ft⋅lbf (1,800 J)
    69 (4.48 g) BTHP 2,950 ft/s (900 m/s) 1,333 ft⋅lbf (1,807 J)
    77 (5 g) BTHP 2,750 ft/s (840 m/s) 1,293 ft⋅lbf (1,753 J)

    As one can plainly see, the two cartridges are nearly identical to one another.
     
  23. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    Ah sure, but our resident expert would call them a pinker rounds, which sort of undermines the justification for calling for banning the evil weapons GCAs have labeled, deadly assault rifles.

    Funny, when GCAs start trying to make their points with supposed superior firearms knowledge it’s interesting to keep feeding them rope, almost more fun of watching them explain the 2nd Amendment to those of us they figure don’t have a clue.
     
  24. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm.... our resident expert on ‘full power’ rounds has decided not to engage with us Ill informed critics of the GCA superior knowledge and common myth dogma. Rope anyone?

    Always entertaining.
    AR 15... an assault military class rifle that is semi auto shooting a plinker round
    Assault Rifle... hmmm... GCAs can’t seem to share a definitive definition
    Full Power Rounds... again no real definition, but perhaps a military used round capable of killing a military man... not a round used for plinking
    Common Sense... shared GCA mantras, the basis for their firearms knowledge (often demonstrated in video and film)
    Keep ‘em posting and you learn a lot. A few things missing in this discussion... vilification of TRUMP, the NRA, and the GOP.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
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  25. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    I used to have a rifle chambered in .22/4000. I wonder where it falls in the spectrum of ‘full power’?
     

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