Hammer of the Gods - Led Zeppelin

That plagiarism video isn't exactly fair or accurate. It isn't plagiarism if you credit and or pay rights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_the_Levee_Breaks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babe_I'm_Gonna_Leave_You
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Can't_Quit_You_Baby
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bring_It_On_Home_(Sonny_Boy_Williamson_II_song)

Dazed and Confused, straight theft. Page was fond of "reworking" songs. He also had a tendency to credit himself along with the actual authors because of his changes, which I don't like... however he often changed lyrics, so I guess someone must be credited with those additions.

I am just saying, not defending the clear plagiarism in many of those songs... some of the guitar work is iffy, some directly ripped off and changed enough to avoid litigation, and some just plain stolen... but about half of those 10 examples are credited.

Frankly... The Yardbirds were an "ok" group. Clapton and Page are two of the most overrated guitar players in the history of music though. Clapton owes most of his success to JJ Cale frankly.

 

Some like to disparage Led Zeppelin for plagerism but that is a legal issue. What can't be denied is that all groups are influenced by their predecessors and yes it is proper to give credit to those and pay royalties when appropriate. That is a legal issue but what many don't seem to accept is that Led Zeppelin arraigned and produced songs that were far more of a success than the original artists could have hoped for.

Willie Dixon, for example, was a great blues musician but his total record album sales were less than the sales for any of the Led Zeppelin albums. Yes, if Led Zeppelin uses a Willie Dixon song then Dixon deserved credit and royalites for it. That does not change the fact that the Led Zeppelin arrangement and production of the song was highly successful commercially whereas Willie Dixon's version was not. Willie Dixon was never a commercial success when compared to many of the groups that used his songs including Led Zeppelin. As another example how many people would even know who Robert Johnson was if it wasn't for rock bands re-arranging his songs? He would have been lost in obscurity had his music not been resurrected by rock groups. Willie Dixon will be famous because of other groups using his songs moreso than because of the songs he recorded. How many people have a Willie Dixon album in their collection today and yet many have recordings of his songs by other groups.

So plagerism is not a good thing but it does not take away from the music itself. Whether the original person is given credit and/or royalties doesn't have anything to do with the actual song produced. Listen to the song to evaluate the music.

 

I agree, and again, Dixon was always credited.

 

All four made the band what it was.

Robert's vocals - unique. Babe magnet too.
John Paul Jones - classically trained musician, as were his parents.
John "Bonzo" Bonham - the hammer - vital to the sound.

But Jimmy page - was the genesis, creator, and driving force of Led Zeppelin.

Having taken over the Yardbirds when the other members lost interest, he changed the name to Led Zeppelin and made it his own.
He played guitar from a young age (12) was mostly self taught, and even taught Flamenco guitar lessons.

I could go on and on about Jimmy, but I'll stop here.

 

Absolutely true and Jimmy Page was the foundation of Led Zeppelin. It was "his" band but all of the members made major contributions to the music the band created. As a guitar player I'd equate Jimmy Page with Eddie Van Halen but Eddie Van Halen could never be "Jimmy Page" and the group Van Halen could never equate to Led Zeppelin.

As a group Led Zeppelin arguably surpassed all other rock groups but other musicians in other groups are equally as good. It was the synergy of Led Zeppelin that made the group superior to other rock bands.

 

I don't disagree with you a bit, Shiva. I love Zep too !!!!

 

When I lived in Los Angeles I never missed a Led Zeppelin concert. Not just a "tour" but a concert as often Led Zeppelin would perform five shows when they toured LA and I went to all five of them.

Ticket "scalping" was legal in California and you could put down a deposit for tickets with the Troy Ticket Agency even when a tour wasn't yet planned. I was actually on the road to do just that the morning that the radio announced that John Bonham had died. I turned around and when home... it was a sad day for music.

 

Yes it was, Shiva. I never got to see Zep, but I saw Robert plant in Norfolk in the late 1980's. It was good.
I have seen the Stones, tho-

 

Me too and had back stage passes. I worked as a roadie with Bill Walker's Joint Productions in the early 1970's and saw a lot of great bands. Joint Productions handled many of the top band predominately at West Coast secondary venues like Tucson, San Diego and Santa Barbara while top companies had LA and San Francisco. We never did a Led Zeppelin show though and I couldn't even get backstage for those shows. I could get backstate to virtually any other group even when I wasn't involved in the production. It never worked for Zeppelin.

 

I certainly wouldn't suggest that Led Zeppelin 'surpassed all other rock groups' at all - they are right up there, but they are not necessarily the greatest rock group ever. I don't think any band could legitimately lay claim to that as a title. It's always the band being greater than the sum of the parts, and the dynamics within the band and between all of the members, that make a truly great band. That's what gives it that extra spark of inventiveness, emotion, musicality and so on, and allows them to progress their sound as they develop over the years.

The problem with the likes of Van Halen is that they are too reliant on the talents of one member, instead of having several members who are equally talented and compliment each other. That is what puts groups like Led Zeppelin (and Black Sabbath, and Blue Oyster Cult, and Dio-era Rainbow, etc, etc..) ahead of the game, and always will. With any truly great band, it should be virtually impossible to decide which member is 'best', because they should all be blending their talents together to create something really special that is far greater than any of them could achieve on their own.

Once egos take over and they go off on their own, thinking that they were the 'real talent', what they produce will always be sub-standard, apart from those rare times when those individuals realise the simple truth that they need to have equally 'great' people around them in order to really be 'great' again. Post-Zeppelin, I would say that, despite their being odd rare glimpses of excellence from Plant and Page here and there, only JPJ has achieved something that could be considered as anything like a continuation of the greatness of the Zeppelin legacy by its members, and that's only happened recently after he joined up with 2 other individuals who are genuinely capable of 'greatness' in TCV.

Individuals don't make truly 'great' rock music, or truly 'great' rock bands, or true 'greatness' - only groups of individuals with equal potential for 'greatness' working together can achieve that kind of thing.

 

I'm too young to have seen Zeppelin, of course (sorry!), but I have seen all 3 surviving members, plus Jason Bonham, playing separately.

Plant on the 'Non Stop Go Tour', twice - late 80's
Page on the Outrider Tour, with Jason Bonham - late 80's
JPJ at Download Festival 2010 with Them Crooked Vultures

 

Well that's just not a true statement at all. He was credited after he won a lawsuit he filed against Zepplin in 1985.

http://www.musicradar.com/news/guit...-over-led-zeppelins-dazed-and-confused-258795

 

I love their early work, granfathers of heavy metal, alongside Black Sabbath and Deep Purple.

Awesome Jimmy Page:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlNhD0oS5pk"]Led Zeppelin - Immigrant Song (Live Video) - YouTube[/ame]

 

Why do you suppose it was that way?

 

I will vote for Robert Plant. Despite the fact the band was extremely talented and well rounded, Plant gave the band its most easily dicernable sound. If one member was replace you never have Zeppelin again but if one member could be considered non replacable in order to preserve the Led Zep sound...my votes for Percy.

 

Les Yardbirds:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPfpUv4hUOw&feature=related"]The Yardbirds - Train Kept A Rollin' (196 - YouTube[/ame]

...and in the movie "Blow Up":

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHNL5_2LspE"]The Yardbirds - Stroll On (Jeff Beck & Jimmy Page 1966) - YouTube[/ame]

 

Shiva wasn't a sexy chick.

 

Because he didnt bring enough drugs,vodka or underage girls with him?

 

"As a group Led Zeppelin arguably surpassed all other rock groups...".

Let's look at a some numbers --

Led Zeppelin - formed 1968, disbanded 1980 after the death of John Bonham. Released a total of 9 studio albums.

World's Greatest Rock 'N Roll Band - formed 1962, supposedly touring in 2012 to commemorate 50th anniversary. Released over 100 singles, 22 U.S. studio albums, 10 live albums, and 14 compliations. Last studio album to chart gold was released 12/67, since then 15 platinum studio albums.

Led Zeppelin is good, without a doubt. But they don't hold a candle to The Glimmer Twins!

I know it's only rock 'n roll but I like it, like it, yes, I do!

 

I thought you were talking about the mighty Quo for a moment there (they also formed in 1962, under a different name), but obviously they've released more studio albums than that!

 

I believe it had to do with Peter Grant's management of Led Zeppelin. As many know it was Grant that established the policy that the members of Led Zeppelin would not grant interviews with the press and kept the band isolated to a very large degree. He was very involved in their concerts moreso than any manager of any group I'm aware of. He was at all of their shows and I believe it was his insistance on privacy related to the group.

At other concerts really all anyone needed to do was show up backstage in a limo to get in. The promoters, not actually knowing the people in the car, were basically afraid of turning someone away that could have close ties with the bands. On the production side we simply gave them a backstage pass often without a seat in the audience. For our guests we gave them both the pass and a seat up front. It was never really a problem because few people showed up at the backdoor in limos and generally they were important people. Those were much more innocent times though and I doubt showing up backstage in a limo would work today for security reasons.

 

The Jagger/Richards connection is unquestionable but the Rolling Stones has been a continuosly changing group. The longest continuously recording/touring group with the same members is ZZ Top.

Of note I had the pleasure of going out drinking with Ronnie Woods and several others in Tucson AZ in the early '70's when he was still with Rod Steward. After he joined the Rolling Stones I went to one of their shows and when I was backstage he remembered me and that night on the town. That surprised me because I'm sure he's partied with thousands of people in thousands of bars over the years but it was nice he remembered and took the time to say hello. He's really good people and can party a lot more than I can. LOL

 

Not a big Zep fan but Page is the most talented. Put me in a studio with a half a million to spend and three months' time and I can compare.

Much more a Floyd fan- try hacking that!

 

Page had a way of overlapping melodies to hold a song together. He didn't rely on pounding out chord progressions, he laid down layers of sound, each unique, yet woven to produce harmony. Astounding talent.

 

Jimmy Page could certainly do that but I believe that the arrangments were more of a "group" thing and John Paul Jones certainly contributed immensely to that.

Of note I was watching MTV and Richie Blackmore of Deep Purple commented that Led Zeppelin taught him that a group didn't need to be loud to be heavy. The accoustic work not only by Jimmy Page but also at times by Robert Plant is often amazing for being heavy. Immigrant Song was a prime example.