Has a political forum debate ever changed your position on an issue?

Have you ever changed your position on an issue, even by just a little, because of comments you've read on a political forum?

Have you've ever been in a forum debate and realize that your opponent's position is the better one? If yes, did you concede and admit you had changed your mind? I'm not talking about you making a factual error. We all do that sometimes. I want to know if you've ever realized you're defending the wrong side of an issue?

On political forums we're all so dug into our partisan ideas, which we often invest our egos and pride into that it can be hard to admit that we've discovered that we're on the wrong side of an issue. And of course some people on the other side behave like such hillbillies or hippies so that we hate the idea of them being right so we dig in our heels even more on a position we no longer believe in.

As for myself I've modified my position on abortion and flag burning because of what I've read posted by some really articulate and intelligent members from another political site. I just joined this site so no one here's changed my mind about anything yet. But it could happen because some of you really seem to know your stuff. Or you're just experts at working your Google.

So anyway I ask these questions because I want to see which ones of you are sticks in the mud and which are ummmm sticks in the grass? Yea, I'm really bad at idioms.

 

I should have put this in "political opinions and beliefs."
"Casual chats" is a ghost town.

 

Or your subject is something no one gives a rats ass about.

I'll go with the latter.

 

Thank you for your input
However I don't think you've articulated your position well enough to change my mind.

 

You must be a liberal then.

Say it ain't so...Please!

 

Sure it has.

 

I have run across some very talented people who gave me a lot to think over. And though I have spent years acquiring the vast majority of my views,. I think I am still open to new things.

I once accepted abortion as the woman's need. Over time, I have got to be against it.

If a person wants to kill their child, I don't have to like it. But if it is my child, that I am free not to like.

 

I figure it's harder to change positions as we get older. I just try not to become so rigid in my beliefs that I world feel I can't change them when I learn new things.

 

Things happen during life and as they do, your brain collects bits of information, experiences and evidence, some in the form of photos.

Take me for example. I started out as a Democrat. I was so upset by them, in arguments, I paid republicans no attention at all.

I knew it all. When I turned around 42, things changed a lot. I found books on politics and over a period of close to 2 years, I changed from Democrat to republican.

I favor libertarians ideology but don't vote for them mainly due to them not having much support. But in this state, Democrats win the offices. I hope to woo democrats in CA away from their party to the republican party. Seldom works.

 

I thought about voting libertarian too but Mr "what is Aleppo" has no charisma. This was the perfect opportunity for the libertarians to gain some traction but they picked a goofball candidate.

There's some articulate libertarians on another political site I use and they make good arguments for their party.

 

Each state is so different. Johnson ran a state as it's governor. While he had no clue about Aleppo, the man is not dumb.

I am sure he coaches well enough.

Johnson has run to be president in the past. And he also was a republican. I don't recall if he ran as a republican but believe he did to become a governor.

 

- - - Did someone say 'liberal'?

 

So here's my contribution, Anna ...

I had a long drawn out discussion with a PFer one time that changed my attitude about the minimum wage somewhat. His point of view was that a minimum wage must also be a living wage, and we had a lively and lengthy debate. By the time we were done, I still disagreed with him on some points. But there was a point he made that made sense. Let's forget about money for the moment, and imagine that we didn't have that kind of exchange of labor for money. In that hypothetical world, one would labor nonetheless. And why? To survive, of course - to feed yourself, clothe yourself, and put a roof over your head. But if your labor failed to provide the minimum you needed to survive, that labor would be pointless, wouldn't it? Why would it be pointless? Because, unless you stole from others or they gave you what you needed from their labor, you'd die, that's why. Labor that didn't provide the minimum to survive has no value if you're just going to die anyway. His point was that the only useful labor was labor that gave you the minimum you needed to live independently. Very modestly, but independently.

Now, in our society, we don't have minimum wage folks dying, but that is because they take from others to survive. I don't mean that they steal. I mean that we subsidize their food, housing, and medical care through taxing (taking from) others. So the discussion has caused me to think about this. If full time labor provided the minimum one needed to live independently (although modestly), wouldn't that be better than taking from others? Believe me, in the discussion, I threw out every objection to this concept in the book of objections. And I still see some usefulness to a minimum wage, even if that wage doesn't provide enough to survive on, such as for kids living with their parents, or as a temporary wage during training and a probationary period.

But we will always have people in our society who will not have the education and skills to do high-wage jobs. And, we will always have a need for people to do low-skill work. Those two things are a given. So if a low-skill worker (that we need) works full time at his low-skill job (that we need), should that person make enough to survive independently, or should he still be dependent on others to survive?

This discussion really caused me to think.

 

That's a pretty darn good argument. I'm still on the fence about the minimum wage issue so I'll have to give that argument some more thought.

- - - Updated - - -

P.S. I'd repp you for that post but president Obama says I have to spread the repps around.

 

I've found myself admitting I'm wrong when someone has pointed out to me something inaccurate I've posted. But as far as issues, I can only think of one issue that a poster here has changed my mind about. But you have to understand, that the vast majority of what's posted here, from both sides (but mostly from the left), are merely talking points cribbed from a couple of websites. Battles of the talking points almost never get resolved with a clear winner. Although my political positions have altered over the past couple of years, it had nothing to do with this or any other forum.

 

Yes, but more importantly, I have had my mind changed by reading and not debating.

When I make an argument, I'm not worried about convincing the other person. But the debate puts the argument out there for others to use and read. This is the value in internet forums, imo.

I was once very active in other ways on other forums, and have seen my posts quoted by people all over the world, on other forums and academic websites. THAT is powerful.

At the least, people around the world can see that we are not monolithic societies. For example, I can remember when people around the world saw all Americans as being the same. That fallacy has been dispelled more than not, I would hope. In a sense we are seeing the death of nationalism. That is a good thing. Nationalism is responsible for most of the ills of the world since the Renaissance.

 

You're probably right. We've all heard the same boring thinking points older and over. Seems to me both sides are equal when it comes to posting those.

Oh so then your positions change because of what the talking heads on the cable news shows tell you? They'll be glad to hear that.
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J/K
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Maybe??

 

It is cool when I think about it. Cool that I'm communicating with people from the world over. I don't think about it much because it's always been that way for me, being that I'm only 25.
My dad says in his younger days you could only talk politics with the few friends and colleagues living near you. And through angry letters to the editor of the local paper. I couldn't imagine living in such an isolated world.

Yea that's a good thing. Americans, Russians and Ukrainians can see we aren't all common hive mind thinkers following the party line.

 

Yes, when you were ten years old, the international and national conversations we have daily, didn't exist or were just beginning to happen. I can clearly remember the first time I posted on a forum. In about twenty minutes I was having a conversation with people in seven different countries... before I finished my first cup of coffee! That was in 2001 and it was amazing at the time.

Beyond that, the information flow was mostly one way. We received the news but had no way to broadcast our opinions, except through things like letters to the editor, in newspapers.

 

Heh. Talking heads on TV probably had zero effect, unless there is a possible negative effect due to a contrarian impulse that leads me to disagree with whatever people in high status positions and credentialed resumes are saying. Particularly when they are wrong over and over.

 

Minimum wage is just a way in begin to impose a maximum wage. Nobody forces you to work.

 

Yes.

Once in a while an argument will be put forth that causes me to pause and examine my own positions.

 

Over many years here I've had many good experiences with many good people. I can say that partaking in the discussions here has grown my intellect. As for "changing my mind", I can say," not really".

 

I have certainly seen shifts in opinion over the 3 years I have been in this forum particularly with respect to gun rights and criticism of the gay agenda. Was it because of discussions in this forum? I doubt it. I think the shift in the general forum simply reflects the shift in the younger population of the nation - they have experienced the failure of "progressivism" and are moving towards true classical liberalism (which in USA politics is labeled conservatism).

I have refined my position on a few issues, and expanded my knowledge in some areas, through researching something in the forum that caught my eye but rarely because a post in the forum contained enlightening content.

Its a free and anonymous forum - you get what you pay for.

 

Nah ... We've had a minimum wage for a long time now, and yet I see no prospect of a maximum wage ever being imposed in the U.S.

Nobody forces you to work, but survival requires that you either work or take from others. Absent one or the other, you die.