Due to the George Zimmerman/Trayvon incident there has been a lot of confusion in certain quarters about the word "Hispanic." First of all race in general really isn't a firm scientific concept. There is no "black" or "white" gene. You can't just look at someone's DNA and tell what race they are. Race is somewhat of a made up social concept. What is considered "black" or "white" in one country is not considered "black" or "white" in another country. What is far more germane is how the person is treated and how society interacts with them. If you are treated like a black person and called black by society then you for most purposes are black. What you put on a bureaucratic form somewhere isn't going to affect how someone at the car wash or check out line at the grocery store sees you. Heck sometimes it doesn't matter what you look like or do. Some crazy people will see you as something totally unrelated to your origin. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrnRU3ocIH4"]McCain Counters Obama 'Arab' Question - YouTube[/ame] Now "Hispanic" is even messier. The problem is "Hispanic" isn't even a race, even by the rather poor definition of "race." Anyone that has read scientific literature is aware of how scientists struggle with that term. While certain trends such as the incidence of CF and lactose tolerance can be seen in the genes of Caucasian Americans particularly those of Northern European descent things are far trickier with "Hispanics." Further complicating matters since Hispanic is NOT a race you can have "white" Hispanics, "black" Hispanics, and even "Asian" Hispanics. Now Zimmerman is called by some "Hispanic" because his mother comes from Peru. Let's look at a picture of a long serving PRESIDENT of Peru. His name is Alberto Fujimori. If you saw him buying groceries from a distance how would you describe him? Would you describe him as Hispanic if you never met him before or heard him speak? Would that be an accurate description? He comes from Peru just like Zimmerman's mother. Well not "just like" Zimmerman's mother. He was PRESIDENT of Peru! Would you describe him as "Asian Hispanic?" Is Pat Toomey "Hispanic" or "White Hispanic" or just plain "white?" Many of the shrillest voices in this debate are unaware that Pat Toomey is a member of the Congressional Hispanic Conference. He bases his membership in the Conference on his mother's lineage... She's from Europe. Is he "white?" Is he "Hispanic?" Is he "White Hispanic?" Does it matter whether Zimmerman is "white" "Hispanic" or "white Hispanic?" No. But I do want to set the record straight that "Hispanic" is not a race, even by the really low standards we use to define "races."
We had quite a few discussions about illegals, and many who spoke up against this invasion were called racists. So this is rather interesting. I guess it depends on how we wish to look at things, and which argument is most convincing at the moment.
How many threads are you going to start about this topic? This one makes 3 since noon. Trying to keep that pot stirred must be a full-time job, eh? http://www.politicalforum.com/current-events/241106-trayvon-zimmerman-case-part-ii-please-place-all-posts-here.html What is your point here... Zimmerman is white because Hispanic isn't really a race? s-t-r-e-t-c-h
Exactly. I was going to say also, didn't the Left call 'racist' on people who don't want to let illegal aliens into the country?
If Zimmerman is a White Hispanic as some liberal news sources claim does that make Obama a White Black?
See, I would think that since the Hispanic came from Z's mom, I think, he would be a Hispanic White- you only put white black or white asian if the mom is white, its complicated.
Well if we are going to get all technical, there is only one race, the human race. There are a lot of different ethnicities though. But, this is really all just semantics anyway, isn't it?
As poorly defined as race is in a scientific sense "racist" has taken on a life of it's own that makes the word "race" look like a well defined physics equation. What would you call what happened in the Balkans? It was defined as ethnic cleansing. Were those people racists? Most of the people involved, perpetrators and victims, were "Caucasians." As I said with matters that involve race the practical definition is how the broader society in general would define it. If there is no firm 100% accurate definition for race 100% of the time then there cannot be a firm 100% accurate definition for racist 100% of the time. Certain things are clearly racist whether a handful of extremists in any given society want to acknowledge them or not. But that doesn't mean every time a charge of racism is made there is broadly agreed upon racism occurring.
Jeb , You are a real racist , even though I am sure you are a real nice guy -- although probably very boring . Hispanic is a useful label because it approximates to something not too far from the truth So stop lookuing for race purity . It does not exist. Hispanic is a convenience label and it's OK For God's sake , you could have drawn the short straw and been a Hilly Billy Boy .
ha-Ha! You are correct, raymondo. Again, When it comes to their impressions of beauty, the blacks in America are clearly the most “racist” people of all! Take a look at the most popular “black" Afro magazines such as Essence, Jet, Ebony, and Sister 2 Sister. All of the black models in these magazines are light-skinned with European facial features. You never see black models with dark black skin and with prominent Negroid features such as the thick, full lips, wide-set eyes and a wide, broad nose. Sad. Very Sad.
No. Some people wish to throw the baby out with the bath water. It is convenient for them. You have someone that looks like Zimmerman who guns down a guy that looks like Trayvon. He is heard on a 911 tape allegedly saying "f**king coons." [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGuctYqCDvo"]DIAGNOSTIC: George Zimmerman Clearly says "****ing Coons" Before Killing Trayvon Martin - YouTube[/ame] That is different than someone who looks like Zimmerman and happens to be my friend. If someone asked me his race or ethnicity I would want to know why and I would probably assume his race and ethnicity were irrelevant. In all of these "race" situations contexts matters. Race is more of a societal construct. Human societies are complex. Not acknowledging the complexity of human societies is what has lead to innumerable blunders. To say Zimmerman's mother is from Peru so he could never be biased against Trayvon is ridiculous as my thread has illustrated. By the same token just because Zimmerman's skin is lighter than Trayvon's does not automatically make Zimmerman a racist that targeted Trayvon just because he was black.
The term 'racist' is one of convenience, sadly, obscuring actual racism where it still exists. Just look at the FL situation. If both victim and shooter were lily white, would we have such an uproar, or would we possibly wait until ALL FACTS are in and look at them objectively? Well, someone would argue Con vs Lib, right to bear arms or not....may be.
Who knows. I am not an audio tape analysis expert. There is a reason I said "allegedly" in my post. My point is the question has to be asked. Whether the answer is believable is up to a jury not you or me. But the "Zimmerman's mother is from Peru" defense doesn't hold water. There needs to be a lot more explaining before we just toss the "race" angle. The laws are on the books for a reason.
The race depends on the negativity. When its positive, he's Hispanic. If its negative he's WHITE/hispanic Well, thats what MSM seems to do.
The Census Bureau warns that data on race in 2000 Census are not directly comparable to those collected in previous censuses.[12] Many US residents consider race and ethnicity to be the exact same concept.[4] It is one of the selections for the census and is also a selection on many other forms that ask for race.
