House built on sand

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by yangforward, Apr 25, 2024.

  1. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The entire justification for the US weapons sent
    to Ukraine is the claim that Russia had invaded
    Ukraine.

    The assertion that Russia had invaded Ukraine
    was made with a further claim that the action was
    without justification or any necessity.

    Biden:
    "The Russian military has begun a brutal assault on
    the people of Ukraine without provocation, without
    justification, without necessity."

    That the Russian Federation moved forces in to
    protect Donetsk from the artillery, on Feb 24th in
    response to particularly heavy shelling by the
    Ukraine Armed Forces five days earlier on Feb 19th
    was not mentioned.
     
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  2. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The US public may feel no responsibility for what
    has now grown into a war, because that responsibility
    was taken by Joe Biden for misinforming us,

    but I don't think so because we do have an Internet
    these days and just a few minutes of research will
    show that Russia responded to our initial weapons
    supplies, and aggression by elements of the Ukraine
    Armed Forces, often referred to as 'the Azov Battalion'.

    It's a house of cards, the whole thing is supported
    by nothing more than one simple lie.

    It is a house built on sand.
    I don't think it is going to last to Christmas, maybe
    not even until Election Day.
     
  3. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    Here is an article saying the exact opposite: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/19/ukraine-russia-war-donbas/

    Btw, Donetsk is in Ukraine. What business is it of Russia?
     
  4. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The article is behind a paywall.

    I have relied on my information about the shelling of Donetsk,
    supplied by Patrick Lancaster who lived in Donetsk, and maybe
    still does, who went around taking short movies and sending
    them out to the West.

    It was a difficult call to make, whether to believe Patrick and
    a number of Ukrainians in Eastern Ukraine, or the official US
    press. Even eye witnesses in the battle often don't know
    who started it.
     
  5. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My concern recently is not about who started the war,
    because I have found that once someone has taken
    a side they won't change their opinions, but to understand
    that the actions taken by the entire military industrial
    complex, making over a million big six inch fragmentation
    shells, supplying many millions of bullets, the long range
    missiles we send so they can hit Russia

    all those actions are based on the claim that
    "Russia Started it" and all blame is also apportioned using
    that one claim,

    a claim I have heard so many times since the present
    stage of the war started.

    That's a lot to base on a claim that has little or nothing to
    support it.

    The rock the house is built on is just a tiny pebble on
    top of tons of sand.
     
  6. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I can understand doubting the press.

    But, a buildup of arms in defense of Ukraine is NOT a justification for Russian invasion of Ukraine.

    Russia has ben clear about its objectives. And, suggesting they are defensive is preposterous.

    Further, there is no reasonable possibility that a buildup of arms in Ukraine was part of a plan to attack Russia.
     
  7. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ? Really?


    The build up of weapons, growing a NATO armed and trained army of 680,000 soldiers,
    the missiles based in Romania and Poland, the nuclear weapons in Germany, and the
    shelling of Ukraine,

    was I would suggest more about posturing than fighting at that stage.

    The missiles for example were initially fitted with ABMs and the control
    systems were set up for ABMs. They could be fitted with nuclear-armed
    missiles and were originally designed for attack and could be changed
    back to attack without visible alterations.


    It was about threatening Russia at that stage, 'poking the bear'.
     
  8. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The reason NATO built up eastern European border areas was entirely defensive.

    The west long saw Russia as a rogue nation that very much COULD choose to attack. Claiming there was no justification for that thought just isn't supportable.

    Besides, that has been fully proven out, as the assault by Russia has been entirely offensive, with the plan being ownership of Ukraine, a sovereign nation.
     
  9. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Kyiv controlled UAF heavily bombarded Donetsk on Feb 19 2022,
    five days before the Russian Federation moved forces in to protect Donetsk.

    Also if you look at where the Russian forces have been for two years, it
    has been on the West of Donetsk protecting it against artillery.

    To put things in perspective, 2/3 of the world's population reject the
    Biden narrative entirely and even Western Europe gives it limited credence.

    Biden's claim of 'the whole world is with us' is nothing but another cheap lie.
     
  10. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The reason I'm so skeptical is because I heard the news a lot during
    the Vietnam War and although it may have been factually correct, it
    left out all the important bits.

    The Vietnam War is now sufficiently in the past to be able to read
    about it and get some accurate and more complete information about
    it even in Wikipedia.

    If you ask yourself how much factual basis there was for starting that
    war you will understand how little is regarded as sufficient to start a
    war, maybe not in every case, but surprisingly often is enough.
     
  11. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this last part. Our actions do NOT support what we claim is what we stand for.

    Today, we support genocide with bombs and political protection to prevent others from interceding.

    Nobody can look at that and claim we are consistent with the expressions of purpose and values laid out in our founding documents or with the religious beliefs we claim to have.

    However, that does not form a justification for the attempted conquest of Ukraine and the subjugation of its people to the government and principles of Russia.

    Even Russia signed the UN charter that states VERY clearly that what Russia is doing is a violation of world agreement.
     
  12. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Russia is keeping their word, if you check the map, the Russian forces
    are forming a defensive line to protect Donetsk, and were not invading
    all of Ukraine as Joey claimed.

    But, as the US has supplied longer-ranged offensive weapons for shelling
    Donetsk and Crimea and other regions, Russia has had to move further
    west to protect Donetsk.

    Trying to correct Biden's lies is like trying to protect New Orleans from
    a flood using a mop and bucket.

    I have to go and deal with a car breakdown.
     
  13. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I read a quite controversial book a few years ago that puts forward the theory that some members of the CIA have gotten into a rather dark aspect of the occult phenomena.......
    ......
    very dark indeed..........


    https://www.amazon.ca/Cities-Under-Plain-journey-understand-ebook/dp/B00L57H1WM



    Could that world be so dark that they might put biological weapons research facilities in Ukraine........ in order to provoke Russia..... somewhat deliberately???????

    Do a search for the research done by Mr. Ingo Swann... and you will get an idea of how this is connected to REMOTE VIEWING!!!!!!
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2024
  14. DarkDaimon

    DarkDaimon Well-Known Member

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    Wow, that's a lot of propaganda. I hope that you are at least a human being, and not some A.I. bot.
     
  15. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The effort that has gone into the war in Ukraine is substantial, well
    over 100,000 million dollars in weapons, plus pay for the army we raised
    in Ukraine, funds for the Ukrainian govt officials since the tax payers
    are mostly off at war or have left the country. money to run the
    entire country.

    That entire commitment is justified by the claim that the war
    started on Feb 24 2022, made by Biden in a statement he read off
    a teleprompter to the press.

    Everyone knows that it didn't, but not everyone has bothered to
    investigate when it actually started and who started it.

    Because that requires effort.
     
  16. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    People ask me for proof of things I say and I do provide good evidence, but
    note that when Joe Biden read crap off the teleprompter he knew wasn't true

    because he had personally as VP approved the CIA regime change operation
    in Ukraine directed by Victoria Nuland of the State Department, and that was
    in 2014 just as NATO clearly stated,

    Biden was not asked for any evidence, and would not have been able to provide
    any because the stuff he said was totally untrue.

    The public heard it, believed it and can not change their minds.
     
  17. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So now I'm mostly writing in healthcare because the US is just going to go to war
    as much as it can until it goes bankrupt,

    And the public will believe any excuse they are given however many times they've
    heard it before: 'We are fighting for freedom' or 'we are fighting for democracy'.

    So we removed a democratically elected President and now Ukraine has no elections
    and V Zelenskyy has made it illegal to negotiate with Russia about the war

    and in his speech Bidden claimed Russia was refusing to negotiate.


    The public will believe anything and then stick with it long after it is disproven.
     
  18. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  19. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    Whatever business you want it to be. At the moment you're keeping in distance and helping out.
     
  20. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    ??
    Do you think Putin IS interested in negotiations?

    What's your problem with our healthcare? I have issues with what we're doing, too.
     
  21. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes Russia including Pres Putin has been attempting to negotiate, making perfectly
    reasonable offers since 2008 when moving NATO into Ukraine was first proposed.
     
  22. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    NATO said, the perfectly reasonable terms of not joining NATO, were unacceptable
    and rejected the terms and therefore choose war.

    Joining NATO meant a huge army, much bigger than Ukraine could afford, parked
    next to Russia, and missiles in Ukraine able to strike Russia. Russia objected to
    NATO moving into Ukraine and the American diplomats knew 100% that would be the
    case and conveyed that message to Washington which ignored it.

    All this is readily available but isn't spoon fed by the mainstream media to the
    public, so it gets ignored. Biden lies, but it is easier to believe the lies.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2024
  23. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why is it our business but not Russia's business?
     
  24. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It was already Russian forces being shelled though. Russia has effectively invaded the Donbas in 2014 (albeit without insignia) and intentionally turned the legitimate political disputes in the region in to an all out civil war. Many of the public leaders of that were literally politicians and soldiers from Russia. Putin had clearly hoped they could take effective control of the Donbas in 2014 without using their regular forces, just like they did with Crimea. That didn't work out for them though, which is the real reason he launched his "special military operation" in 2022.

    The actions of the Ukraine government certainly weren't always perfect over that period, but the idea that Russia is the shiny hero rushing in to protect innocent civilians is ridiculous, especially given how much they've shelled and bombed civilian areas in the subsequent war.
     
  25. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Because we are the world's policeman,
    everything is our business, if there's money to be made.
     
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