How do we destroy private unions in a constitutional way?

Perhaps. But in China, the only reason why working conditions are so bad is because the Chinese government doesn't allow unions, I believe. What do you say of that?

 

I would never argue for or defend any government policy that outlawed private sector unions. Unions are a legitimate form of free expression and organization is a right of the workers.

I just don't think they need any special government protection either. The example you gave of your grandparents is a perfect example of that. Even without government protecting those jobs, the union was successful in getting the change they wanted.

The government shouldn't side with either the union or the employer - both should be treated equally and fairly. No special protections should be provided for either of them.

 

Exactly. Thank you for that. All these more extreme right wingers on here saying that even private unions are somehow "wage fixers" and thus criminal, are nothing but Chinese-style commies in disguise.

 

Nobody is destroying private-sector unions, except the unions themselves.

The unions do not deliver value to their members and in the 22 (to become 23 on July 1) states that do not require employers to deduct fues from the paycheck of the workers, now have to get the workers to VOLUNTARILY contribute their dues.

If the unions delivered value to the workers, this would be a snap.

But apparently the unions don't deliver value, so they are in trouble.

 

So do you think we should violate peoples' 1st amendment rights and force people to not be allowed to join unions, or not? You right wing hacks can't DIRECTLY answer that question.

 

the only reason all the big non union companies started treating the workers with respect was because they didn't want to lose good workers to unions.Unions keep greed in check.Unions started because of greed,to say unions have had their time is like saying greed is no more,which is ridiculous,because the Republican party still exists.

 

This is so spot on. The Republican party isn't about "liberty" in any way, shape or form, unlike what Republicans (absurdly and outrageously and disgustingly) claim. It's about greed. Most "libertarians" are actually Republicans in disguise.

 

Isn't moving strikers out of the area a breach of the right of association?

Governments obviously don't protect workers, unions do and unions are groups of workers so the call to get the government out of the union protection business is off by a degree or two.

 

I agree that unions have to perform for their members. I also know that the union movement in the US is corrupted, business unions are like that and don't last long. That's what must be happening I think. This goes back to Gompers whose attitude set up the destruction of real trades unions in the US and allowed corrupted business unions to flourish. The AFL-CIO would do well to reform itself so that the union movement serves its members and not the bosses.

 

DeathStar posted:
"So do you think we should violate peoples' 1st amendment rights and force people to not be allowed to join unions, or not?"


Taxcutter says:
Nobody is proposing that people not be allowed to join unions. You harp on a strawman.

What is in play is the idea that union dues should be voluntary. Nothing more.

 

Diuretic posted:
"Isn't moving strikers out of the area a breach of the right of association?"

Taxcutter says:
Does "right of association" trump criminal trespass?

If you cannot legally eject trepassers, property rights are in question and I would expect more companies will be headed offshore. Why have productive property when you can't control access?

 

• 5 Day Work Week
• Holidays
• Holiday Pay

…. I could do on

 

Unions began because of the excesses of business. Unions are ending because of the excesses of unions. The Democrats and socialists are keeping unions propped up for petty political opportunism.

And for Deathstar, right, Slavery if Freedom in the newspeak of the socialists.

 

From what I've been reading in these forums, especially from American rightwingers, is that this union issue in the States is 30-40 years behind what happened in Australia. In the 1970s-1980s there was the issue in Australia of union bashing.

Fast forward 30-40 years, Australian workers enjoy some of the best wages and conditons in the developed world. As not surprisingly, Australia and Australians are still productive.

 

Where did you get that from his post? He said nothing about preventing people from voluntarily joining unions.

He just posted that in many states card-check has been eliminated and unions have to actually solicit for dues. When they do, workers actually have to consider what they are paying for and often reject the union as a waste of their money.

 

Yeah, public teacher unions are awful. God forbid teachers get paid above poverty level (barely) for 60 hours of work a week with (at least) a bachelor's degree and various certifications.

 

A lot of you righties are actually suggesting that. Lowden Clear, RP12, etc.

 

Well most public school teachers don't deserve even that.

 

Please cite EXACTLY where that was said. Be specific.

 

Hell, PM them if you want. It was a long conversation and I don't feel like youre my (*)(*)(*)(*)ing master such that you can tell me to go on a goose chase and look for exactly where they said what.

 

Translation: I am pulling it out of my sphincter. Having been called, I will fling feces at the poster who called me on it. All too predictable.

YOU made the ridiculous assertion. Therefore, it is up to YOU to source it!

 

go (*)(*)(*)(*)ing message RP12 Lowden Clear etc. I dont give that much of a mother(*)(*)(*)(*) about this

 

If that were true, you would not react with the mouth-frothing spaz-out you are displaying. I am forced to conclude you made it all up and are simply lying.

I accept your concession.