How to replace the petroleum energy supply

Trucking big costs to operate a wind farm.
Wind Turbine Cost: How Much? Are They Worth It in 2022?

 

So why would you ignore all of the sources of air pollution to worry with cars?

All making them electric does is produce more air pollution in the manufacturing, and the charging.

It's like a religion.

If that were the case nobody would drive an electric car.

When evaluating air pollution you can't build a magic box around your car is the entire planet.

Any car with components built in China polluted the air far more on it's trip over here on a ship than it ever will in it's lifetime driving.

You people are hyper focused on your status symbols because it's about the status not the environment.

If you cared about the environment or air quality you'd buy a used car.

 

Also remember that wind energy is subsidized to a much greater extent than fossil fuels.
Subsidies for wind is about $18 per kWh and fossil fuels are about ¢50 per kWh. So it isn't really the cheapest.

 

It's a tough balance to get right. We use capitalism, and the motivation there is to maximize profit.

When the public need changes, when impacts we don't like are detected, etc., the ways government can cause change in industry behavior are law, regulation, tax benefits, etc. - and those are not necessarily strong enough to cause the needed change, and they are distasteful.

And, it becomes especially difficult when the industry in question is hugely profitable and connected to congress.

 

I don't know of cases where that has been attractive from a business point of view.

 

I think my cite above compared gas price today vs. unsubsidized wind.

They ignored any subsidies that gas might be getting.

Wind still was cheaper.

There are issues with wind power. There certainly are regions that don't have enough wind, for example.

Fossil fuel subsidies aren't the same for all fossil fuels.

 

Exactly. If you want one and the other there has to be a compromise. Remember your thread climate deniers? If greed is left out of the equation, then there can be balance. Everyone & everything wins.

 

This is the equation that needs to be reconfigured. If it can't be reworked to fit the current system, what does that tell you? Change the system for a more harmonious one and puts aside the traits of greed.

 

Transportation pollution is a huge source of pollution in cities - where people live, work, etc. It's no surprise that transportation pollution has been an issue for a long time.

Other sources of pollution aren't being ignored.

Yes, EVs push the pollution back toward the sources of electricity. The idea is that those aren't inside cities and point source pollution is easier to deal with than is pollution from transportation.

Also with EVs, sources of electricity can include clean energy, while oil based transportation is locked into oil.

There are externalities with EVs, but your comment needs a lot more analysis than that.

OK, then cite something.

Maybe you're pointing to the idea that cars are trashed before their utility is fully used - which is wasteful.

But, that isn't what is causing our cities to be polluted.

 

Imagine a world without greed and the lust for power over the people, then the slate is clear and open for free energy devices such as Tesla's ideas. Clean & free energy. Without all the negative attachments. A very simple solution, just that the first part of this statement has to be addressed to have the last part come to its fruition.

 

??

Greed isn't ever left out of the equation. Of course, we don't call it greed - we call it the drive to maximize profit.

Capitalism doesn't do anything where there isn't a payback that is worthy of the investment required.

We create balance through regulation, law, tax benefits, etc.

 

Sorry, we are NOT going to switch away from capitalism.

For all its flaws, nobody has found anything even close to capitalism.

 

Some EV facts:
EV subsidies, fantasies and realities
2021 › 03 › 09 › ev-subsidies-fantasies-and-realities
Green New Deal to “massively” expand electric vehicle manufacturing and use. She herself now drives an ... Electric vehicles are trendy but not very Earth-friendly, affordable or emission-free

". . . A single EV battery module needs some 30 pounds of lithium, plus many other metals and materials totaling at least 1,000 pounds: from commonplace iron, copper, aluminum and petroleum-based plastics, to “exotics” like cobalt and multiple rare earth elements. An EV requires three times more copper than its ICE counterpart; a single wind turbine needs some 3.5 tons of copper per megawatt of electricity.

And every 1,000 tons of finished copper involves mining, crushing, refining and smelting some 125,000 tons of ore – and removing thousands of tons of overburden and surrounding rock just to reach the ore. The same is true for all these other materials, especially rare earths. Try to imagine the cumulative global impacts from all this mining and fossil fuel use – so that AOC, Al Gore, Leo Di Caprio and other wealthy, saintly people can drive “clean, green, climate-friendly” electric cars. (That’s OK. Mini AOC can’t either.)

Even worse, many of these materials are dug up and turned into “virtuous” EVs, wind turbines and solar panels – in China, Congo, Bolivia and other places – with little regard for child labor, fair wages, workplace safety, air and water pollution, toxic and radioactive wastes, endangered species and mined land reclamation. It’s all far away, out of sight and out of mind, and thus irrelevant. And amid all this is the touchy issue of Uighur genocide and their people being sent to re-education/slave labor camps, to help meet China’s mineral, EV and other export markets.

How long will we let real social, environmental and climate justice take a back seat to EV mythology?"

 

Greed for wealth turns into greed for power. Look at the Bill Gate, ridiculously wealthy a nutter and a nutter for power. Then you have the Rockefellers look at how many pies they have their fingers in. These examples are of people who project their will and influence the masses. As I said earlier, balance is needed if you want the best of both worlds. The balance is non-existent with the likes of those mentioned and others in that category.

 

Capitalism is an old dinosaur, it has done its dash.

 

Statements like that are pure nonsense unless you have an alternative to sell.

 

I do, but I don't think you're ready to accept it or understand it. Trust me, I know you'll laugh and ridicule.

 

There are serious issues.

But, you desperately need to search out sources that aren't just pure political hit pieces.

Auto manufacturers aren't moving to EVs in order to cater to the rich and famous. There just aren't NEARLY enough rich and famous to justify that, obviously.

Also, battery technology is moving forward as well. It's not as if EV manufacturers are satisfied with the battery technology they have today. They aren't any more interested than you are in using foreign labor to mine rare earths in other continents.

How come you gravitate so strongly toward screeds, even when you COULD be finding info on serious issues?

 

It's not about me.

 

You should take a look at the sources they use.
IMHO manufacturers are trotting out EV's primarily to protect themselves while they make their real money on big SUV's.

 

I know that, but you asked the question and you'd want the answer to that question, hey?

 

The amount they are investing in EVs can not possibly be a "protection" strategy.

How does offering an EV to their customers cause their "big SUV" sales to be stable?
---
My own guess is that we're going to see a collapse of some ICE manufacturers.

They aren't being successful in creating EVs that people want. And, there aren't enough batteries to allow them to deliver enough EVs to pay off the stupendous investment they are making - even if they make an EV that people want.

EVs are cutting into the total car deliveries, meaning the ICE segment is shrinking.

We know from past experience that there isn't a significant margin that US based ICE manufacturers have in order to weather downturns.

 

The point is that you have to create a story that western nations would accept.

So I want the story - but, THAT is the story I want. Not one aimed at me.

 

hustle fuels get about 50 cents a kilowatt hour in subsidies wind gets about $18 it's several orders of magnitude greater that wind is subsidized so you can't say but but fossil fuels are subsidized. Not nearly to the extent of wind.

And the five air conditioners in the entire country that wind does generate electricity for sure, it's cheaper with the government subsidies but it doesn't matter because that's not a feasible solution to energy.

If you wanted to produce energy strictly by wind in the US you would have to put up 650 million windmills. I doubt they could produce them in the next thousand years

yeah there's some serious issues with wind that can't be avoided or worked around.

No matter how many windmills you have you can't make the wind blow harder or longer so there will be dips in power. It is woefully inadequate for the demands on electricity today.

Wind generated energy is anything but a tiny percent of the energy we use is a pipe dream.

Yeah the number I gave was an average wind gets several orders of magnitude more subsidies and it still fails solar gets a lot more subsidies than wind and that's even more of a joke.

This is a cult it's not just a religion it's a cult you want to believe in this stupid rainbows and unicorns nonsense.

 

yeah you did just ignore it you talked about how huge it is when it's not really. Or you move the goal posts to talk about just in the cities. This is why your electric car cult is a cult. You have to believe in this nonsense. And that the electric cars the power produced for them doesn't burn any fossil fuels which it clearly does in its the air just the same if not more.

that has got to be the single stupid ass religious belief I have heard you mentioned to this moment.

That somehow there's this partition of that separates the atmosphere around a power plant.

Your religion is getting stupider and stupider by the minute the more you talk about it. The atmosphere is shared by the entire planet. No magic little spots where goblins and fairies hold the pollution in one spot.

Your religion is way stupider than many others.

that is the dumbest thing you could possibly say. The entire planet shares the same atmosphere you can't put magical boxes around your pretend to make believe religious crap.

no it can't fake clean energy first is religious bullshit there's no such thing as clean energy. Windmills destroy environment. And they produce deadly squat. If you want to demand six times as much power as we produce you will have to burn fossils that's it. Your fairy dusted magical goblin power is not going to work.

against your wacky cult beliefs I don't need to your religion is absurd on the face. Also there have been analysis done I don't need to do it you just need to get out from under the brainwashing and open your little eyeballs.

cities aren't magical little places with barriers that separate them from every other part of the globe so air pollution is something that is in the atmosphere and I don't know if you know this and maybe you need proof of it the entire planet shares the same atmosphere.

Your religious beliefs are so absurd I almost wet myself laughing at you. I can't believe how many relatively smart people buy into this BS it just shucks me what kind of people join cults.