I don't get Israel's plan so far...

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by LiveUninhibited, Oct 30, 2023.

  1. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  2. Roelath

    Roelath Well-Known Member

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    Arabs do live in fear in Israel. They fear being sent to prisons for protesting/organizing for their interests. They fear being evicted from their homes because Jewish settlers are seizing their land. Quite the paradise to always be on the backfoot and the government has given the clear for random Jews to do as they wish to non-Jews. It's almost if their religion considers anyone not them to be beasts.

    Yes, there was. 2005 & 2008 being the closest timeframe. You could go back decades during the wars prior and there was an occupation force in Gaza present.

    Oh, I see. Palestinians aren't human. Thus being against Israel is to be Pro-Beasts/Amalek. Since Jews are the only humans and are chosen by God they're the only people worth any value.
     
  3. Roelath

    Roelath Well-Known Member

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    If tomorrow New York city was locked up just like the movie "Escape from New York" you'd make the same silly argument that without government assistance they would starve to death as if its a compelling argument against their existence.
     
  4. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    His point sailed over your head.
    He's suggesting Israel has gone too far, not that "most things can be described as a field of grey."
    This is a straw man because @Josh77 made no such argument.
    He's suggesting, I believe, you're supporting collective punishment.
    He was talking about Israel going too far. You're suggesting what @Josh77 sees as excessive is necessary to deter terrorism.
    Tedious nonsense. :lol: :lol:
    Moralizing.
     
  5. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Israel’s military has in recent days escalated its aerial bombardment of the Gaza Strip, including targeted strikes on some of the enclave’s densely populated refugee camps.

    Initially established in 1948 to house Palestinians who fled or were forced from their homes during the Arab-Israeli War, the camps are now home to many of Gaza’s 1.7 million registered refugees, according to the United Nations. Even before the war, the camps were cramped, impoverished and lacked basic infrastructure.

    On Tuesday, Israeli airstrikes hit the Jabalya refugee camp in the north. More than 100 people were killed and hundreds more injured, according to the director of a local hospital. The attack was condemned by aid organizations and diplomats. Israel’s military said the strike killed a senior Hamas commander and attributed the death of civilians to “the tragedy of war.” On Wednesday, another strike on the camp left dozens wounded, the hospital director said.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/11/01/gaza-refugee-camps-jabalya-israel-strike/
     
  6. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Lol, I see many have learned nothing from "the war on terror". Bombing does not stop terrorism, it creates more. Fixing the political situations that cause terrorism is how you fight it. Terrorism is a symptom of poor geopolitical decisions that disenfranchise large groups of people. It is not like a conventional army that can be defeated on the battlefield. It takes strong political leadership and diplomacy to defeat terrorism, not bombs.

    Fixing the political landscape is not appeasement. It is usually righting a wrong that caused people to radicalize. People are not born evil and decide one day to become a terrorist. they are made out of desperation.

    I am not condoning terrorism, not at all. I fully condemn Hamas and the actions of ALL terrorists. But I also recognize that there are factors that drive people to commit such heinous actions. We need to identify the disease, and not the symptoms. And no, the disease is not Islam or Christianity, or Judaism. Those are just tools used by the disease as a means to an end.
     
  7. Tipper101

    Tipper101 Well-Known Member

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    Refugee camps with terrorist generals in them. Oh right you want Hamas generals safe from harm I forgot
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2023
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  8. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They killed a Hamas leader that will be immediately replaced by another, and they created 100 more terrorists from the outrage at having their families bombed. It was a stupid decision by the IDF.
     
  9. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Talk to the Egytians and Jordanians. Israel controls a very small part of Gazas borders. Maybe it's because no one else wants them in their country for much the same reasons as Israel doesn't want them in theirs.
     
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  10. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Arab-Israelis are not trying to flee. They are happy there. You are arguing against things I never said. That is likely because you have no argument against things I actually did say.

    Bottom line, the anti-Israel side will kill people for being Jewish, Christian, American, atheist, gay, non-Muslim, or critical of religion/government. You are welcome to criticize Israel, but are not pointing with clean hands.

    I am just a random guy on the internet. I don't think I am going to turn Jew-haters into people who value the lives of their children more than they want to kill Jews.
     
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  11. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is a good discussion on the subject. The interview is with Scott Ritter, a former US Marine intelligence officer and a former UN weapons inspector.
     
  12. Roelath

    Roelath Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure you'd say the same thing if Israel imposed their occupation on Egypt and Jordan. Why doesn't Libya or Iraq take them in!? Ever expanding borders and ever expanding justifications for their land grabbing. Why don't the Ukrainians just go to Europe and accept being displaced by Russians? Why don't the Taiwanese just give up their Island to China and just move somewhere else?
     
  13. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    I understand their plan, they are going to kill Hamas.

    OH: U.S. All but Stopped Spying on Hamas in Years After 9/11. It's not like they were Trump, School Board Parents, Members of Congress, or Catholics.

    'With more than 30 Americans dead and 10 missing, mounting fears of a regional war, and billions of dollars in U.S. military hardware headed to the Middle East since Hamas’s Oct. 7 attacks on Israel, some officials say the U.S. misjudged the threat to U.S. national security.'

    You think?
     
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  14. Roelath

    Roelath Well-Known Member

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    Who told you this? You state a lot of this "happiness" but Arabs don't have the same freedoms Jews have within Israel. You're just throwing out how happy they are in the gay pride Zionist state of Israel without any proof beyond your own words.

    Bottom line, the pro-Israel side will send Americans to go fight in their wars, demand they pay for their defenses, spit on them because they're cattle in their eyes, and have American politicians showing up wearing their IDF uniforms while in the USA. Israel by far has no clean hands. Their entire nation is founded upon terrorist organizations, massacres, rape, displacement, foreign people invading a land that hasn't been their own in thousands of years, and has threatened the world with the "Samson option" if they don't lay down their lives for Israel's existence.
     
  15. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nothing drives people to those kind of actions unless they enjoy that level of atrocity. They choose it. There are all kinds of ways to fight a war or change things.
    Hamas and those like them- choose terrorism. No excuse. If the reason wasn't Israel, it would be someone else. It's who they are, and that has been true for centuries.

    Worst problem a person can have to to blame their feelings and lack of self-control on others. That can be used to excuse and justify anything, and such a person will not have the ability to control themselves because they think others control them. Unfortunately, there are always a large number of such people in the world, and their hostility never solves any problems. They would not turn to peace, because their problem is programmed into them from childhood; giving them their way will not erase it- it will reinforce it.

    Israel and the jewish people for example have a huge list of wrongs suffered at the hands of others. Holocaust for example- but you don't see them running terror attacks on Germans.
    It's the difference in how the people think. Some just aren't capable of raising themselves to a higher level.
     
  16. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are out of your mind. These kinds of atrocities have occurred countless ties throughout history. When you push people too far, this is the result. Hell, Israel is doing it right now. It is just they claim their atrocity is legitimate because they are a nation state. When non-state actors do it, we label it terrorism.
     
  17. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Something of interest regarding the civilians of Palestine and what their sentiments are.... The people in Gaza were in support of attacks on Israel before the Oct. 7 event, and still are.
    Seem the civilians weren't as civil as some want to think.


    https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/gaza-israel-polls/2023/11/01/id/1140594/
    Gaza Polls: Majority Support Attacks on Israelis

    By Solange Reyner | Wednesday, 01 November 2023 02:54 PM EDT


    "A majority of Gazans living in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip support a return to confrontation and armed intifadas, or civil uprisings, against Israelis, according to a poll published in early September.
    Polls in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, in its survey also found that Hamas’ popularity has not changed since July"
     
  18. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I just read the article, and it didn't say they support the attacks at all.
     
  19. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So- what is your solution? Ask Israel to roll over and die?
    I'd be all for the idea that Palestine have its own home-ruled independent nation. Where? Other than Lebanon, Israel is the smallest nation in the Arab middle east. The rest of them have vast areas of ground- but for some reason, they don't want to give any to the Palestinians. Even Jordan, which was once part of what was known as Palestine.... won't take the Palestinians.
    Israel was created on the land they hold today almost 3,000 years ago, it's not exactly stolen.

    And yes, these atrocities have occurred throughout history- because people with the mindset of terrorists have existed throughout history.
    They are terrorists because of the limitations in how they think. If something or someone offends you, you should be outraged and kill it. No other reason is required.
    British author Salman Rushdie had a multi-million dollar hit placed on his head over 30 years ago by the now long-dead Ayatollah Khomeini, and while other ayatollahs have come and gone, that reward still stands.
    This was over a book that the Ayatollah took offense to. Nothing else. I suppose you would think he was "pushed too far" and justified?
     
  20. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They are free to leave, but they don't. Arab-Israelis have more freedom and rights than non-Muslims in the rest of the surrounding region. No one taking the anti-Israel position is in a position to criticize with clean hands.

    While some Israelis have spat of others, they are still far higher on the moral scale than those defending the anti-Israel position. If those you are defending only spat on people, we wouldn't be on the brink of war.

    Tomorrow, the Jew-haters will continue to be consumed by hatred and will be just as savage and primitive as today. Israelis will continue to make progress in science, medicine, tech, agriculture, etc.

    Hate only harms the hater. Do you really think you are going to convince me to side with those who would cut off my head on camera just for being an American?
     
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  21. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Lol, you live a very sheltered life, don't you? You've obviously never been to a place with oppressed people, struggling to survive. Anybody is capable of that kind of violence if pushed far enough. This country was founded on that kind of violence. If you don't think the patriots who founded this country would be bombing British barracks and emplacing IEDs if the tech existed back then, I say you are delusionsal. Hell, they went in and raped and massacred native American populations during the Revolutionary war.
     
  22. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I guess you missed the small print in the headline?

    Home | Newsfront
    Tags: gaza | israel | polls | hamas | intifadas

    Gaza Polls: Majority Support Attacks on Israelis

    Lived and worked in several third-world countries, in one case in Venezuela under dawn to dusk curfew and martial law for a month. 500 people died in riots in Caracas alone, the first day I was there. Fortunately, dodged the machine gun fire.

    Ever eat chicken-foot soup? They make that when it's the only part of the chicken they can get. How about a place where every "residence' is made of shipping crates and has one light bulb, if any? A farm where the house is made of saplings stuck in the ground to make walls, and thatched palm roof. The guy living there (rural Honduras) worked briefly for me as a guide; depended on fruits and things from the jungle and fish from the lagoon for sustenance. Took a look at my feet one day, decided the size was good. Asked if I had other shoes, which I did. Asked if he could have the ones I was wearing when I left. I found it strange that he was incredibly poor but quite happy. He said the only thing he needed money for was clothes and medicine; he didn't like the way people in cities lived. So my experience is probably nothing compared to yours, I'm sure. Perhaps I didn't learn anything..... Or maybe a lot more about people than you think you do.

    And when you say "that kind of violence", are you including the intentional murder, raping, beheading of babies and burning people alive that Hamas intentionally used?

    I find the people who excuse these kind of things are usually the people who would like to have excuses for themselves, fearing that they might have similar emotions and might behave that way if life was seen as unfair enough. No, not all people are like that. And others do not control your actions, no matter what they do- you choose, and if you are honest with yourself you accept responsibility for it. If you aren't, you blame someone else for "causing" your conduct. That's what separates the men from the animals.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2023
  23. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    There was a ceasefire in place on Oct 6 and they used it to prep for the Oct 7 invasion of and slaughter of unarmed Israeli citizens.

    Now Everyone Knows That 'Ceasefire' Means 'Let Jews Get Slaughtered'

    'Hamas is outright saying that they will repeat the atrocities of October 7th — killing of 1,400 people ranging from infants to the elderly, raping women, kidnapping hundreds — until Israel no longer exists.'

    This is an existential war. Either Israel will kill Hamas or Hamas will kill Israel.

    'Hamas official Ghazi Hamad declared, “We must teach Israel a lesson, and we will do this again and again. The Al-Aqsa Flood is just the first time, and there will be a second, a third, a fourth, because we have the determination, the resolve, and the capabilities to fight.”'

    'When asked to clarify, “Does that mean the annihilation of Israel?” he responded, “Yes, of course.”'
     
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  24. Roelath

    Roelath Well-Known Member

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    Lol? The Jews are free to leave as well and never come back. Also Palestinians aren't even given free acess to travel. They have to be given passes to even travel to Jerusalem. The whole "more freedom and rights" is absolutely bullshit. They're an underclass and Israel is an apartheid state that commits terror on a daily basis.

    You kneel to Zionists so I don't you think really have any morality beyond what you're told.

    Zionists will continue to dehumanize all non-Jews and continue their enslavement & extermination of all other people globally.

    Explains why Jews have been kicked out of 109 countries. It is just that everyone is so hateful because the chosen people are just so pure. lol.
     
  25. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Josh 77, thought you might find this clarifying, just now in the news...

    Hamas terrorist gives graphic details about shooting children to Israeli authorities
    https://www.foxnews.com/live-news/november-1-israel-hamas-war


    A Hamas terrorist told an Israel Securities Authority (ISA) official he and another man shot and killed crying children who were inside a safe room, until the sounds could no longer be heard, while acknowledging he entered the house simply to kill.

    In a video posted by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) to the social media platform X, formerly known as Twitter, the Hamas terrorist is seen wearing prison garb while sitting in a chair with an Israeli flag behind him.

    The unnamed man tells the ISA official, who cannot be seen in the video, that he and other members of Hamas entered a house through the window. While checking the house, he told the official, they heard sounds of young children in the safe room and shot at the safe room.


    Of course, those children drove the terrorists to kill them.
     

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