If the U.S. and Russia have a full blown war over Ukraine, how much of Ukraine will be left?

If the U.S. and Russia have a full blown war over Ukraine, how much of Ukraine will be left?

Please give a number and the unit of measure

 

The rats living in bunkers will survive until they're found. Everyone else, dead or captured.
If you want a number, 0.

 

A better question might be, “how much of the world would be left?” because Putin would probably initiate a nuclear exchange given his desperation and lack of judgment.

Another question would be give the amount of damage Putin has inflected up the Ukrainian during the war, what would it be worth to him if he conquered it?

 

Narrative Zero

I posed the opening question on the costs and benefits for those living in ground zero - the occupants of the battlefield - primarily Donbas and Luhansk.

And on the costs and benefits for the fighters from the West - Western and Central Ukraine (Kyiv), Polish fighters, Azov, ISIS and Al-Quada.

and fighters from the East - Russian armed forces and now Russian-speaking Ukrainians.

My guess was the main beneficiaries would be the weapons makers supplying high-priced weapons to NATO,

who have shipped weapons and supplied training to Central Ukraine since 2014.

 

Why do we spend so much money defending Ukraine's borders? We neither need Ukraine or have any critical national interest in Ukraine. We got along fine without a darn thing from Ukraine for the decades it belonged to the USSR. We should be spending the resources defending our own borders.

 

Narrative One is the speech Pres. Biden gave on Feb 24th, which was supposed to be adopted by the First World.
Narrative Two would be the contents of the lengthy strategy statements made by Pres. Putin over the years and therefore associated with the Second World.
A third perspective would be to look at the geographical encroachment of NATO ever closer to Moscow, and another narrative would be to consider the long historic relationship of Ukraine with Russia.

It would be wrong to call the war in Ukraine - Vietnam War take Seven.

 

Let Russia and Ukraine duke it out... by themselves.

 

The Monroe Doctrine was that the U.S. would allow no competing great powers in the Western Hemisphere. For us to extend that exclusion into the Eastern Hemisphere, particularly up to the border of Russia,
is over-reach. I thought we knew from our own feelings about the USSR placing a missile in Cuba, how Russia would feel when we placed weapons close to them, but evidently we have forgotten.

 

It started with the US producing the Maidan uprising to remove a pro Russian government from power and replace it with a pro-US one, so my understanding is the U.S. and the parts of the Ukraine were involved from the start, and Russia then came in to protect Eastern Ukraine from the US and Kyiv.

 

We never placed any OFFENSIVE WEAPONS near Russia... except for Turkey... and those have been around for decades... at least five decades.

 

and Germany -

'The US has accelerated the fielding of an upgraded nuclear bomb at its European bases, Politico revealed, citing US diplomatic sources.
Originally scheduled to be fielded next spring, the B61-12 air-dropped gravity bomb is now planned for fielding in December, the outlet wrote, citing a closed-door meeting involving US and NATO officials.
Two people familiar with the upcoming delivery to Europe have corroborated the revelations, according to the outlet.

Counterintuitive Move: Experts
The development emerges amid heightened tensions in Western capitals over the growing Russian threat to use nuclear weapons but has come as a surprise to many observers. NATO countries have carefully avoided reacting to Moscow’s nuclear saber-rattling.
“It would be odd to rush it in,” director of the Nuclear Information Project at the Federation of American Scientists Hans Kristensen told Politico.
“They have been saying we don’t respond to this situation with nuclear weapons. I don’t think they want to go down that [road].” '

 

The whole conflict with Russia began with the US expanding NATO into areas Pres. Putin said were crossing red lines, that is Georgia (promised possible entry to NATO) and Ukraine.
Pres. Putin gave many warnings and asked about the enforcement of the Minsk Agreement and after many warnings finally did as he said he would and moved forces in to protect Donbas.

As well as protecting the population of Eastern Ukraine, Pres. Putin also demands the removal of weapons from Eastern Ukraine.
I don't think that's unreasonable considering the US did that ourselves in 1963 with the weapons in Cuba, but it's one rule for us and another rule for them.

 

Germany is not next to Russia. American nukes in Germany are nothing new. I Commanded an M110A2 (8") tube Artillery battery in Germany in the 1980's. We had LOTS of nukes in Germany. They were all retired in the 1990's and replaced with MLRS/ATACMS. There was never any confrontation about nukes in Germany. Along with nuclear tube Artillery, we had nuclear missiles assigned to the Army in Germany. These were Lance (medium range) and Pershing II (long range). Again, no problem.

A gravity bomb delivered by air shouldn't be that big a deal. Heck, we have had the ability to deliver such things from a bit more distance with B1 and B2 bombers for a long time.

 

We're not about to risk New York over anything in the Ukraine.

 

We have no nukes in Ukraine. NONE.