If you were God....

Your mother was not an omniscient/omnibenevolent being, disobeying your mother is far different from disobeying a being that you think knows everything and is perfectly good.

Your second suggestion, that atheism is wrong about almost everything so where is the standard, make no sense in relation to this topic.

 

It does when it is caused by humans. Natural disasters do not murder and rape people. They do not cause wars. They do not lie or steal. They do not commit adultry. They do not create exploutative systems to enrich the few at the expense of many.

You clearly know what was meant, and are simply avoiding the obviousl implication by going to illogical extremes.

 

Now that is an entirely different philosophical question. If I happened to believe in a deity, one that promised eternal life in paradise, this life would mean little to me, other than following the choks or mishpats of the deity to obtain this conditional paradise.

Eternal life (in meaning I assume, is simply the absence of time) in the paradise vs 100 yrs of not too bad servitude, is a no brainer.

 

Omniscient and omnipotence does not negate freewill. The standard you advocated was 'right'. When something is 'right' you MUST follow it. Yep, my mother could have tied my up in the basement to prevent me from dating said tramp. We however, in this modern civilized age, call such things abuse.

So does God.

Additionally, the reverse of your standard is 'wrong' and in, if it is wrong YOU MUST NOT follow it. Yet atheists follow it anyway.

In short, when teh standard is applied, you have special additional, random circumstances applied without explanation in order to make the standard apply to everyone but you. Gottcha.

It just means it isn't a standard, its a club.

 

Ah. Now they've progressed from simply being America haters to being humanity haters?

 

Except as the example just showed not all evil is the result of free will, therefore the problem of evil is not negated by free will. If all evil were the result of free will, only then would the problem be solved by its existence.

I know what was meant and as such I noted that free will does not negate the problem of evil.

 

What free will does a starving and deprived child, who is destined to die, have in some hellish corner of the world?

 

I meant what is the point of mortal existence if this paradise exists, why would god see fit to put us through a grueling moral life when we could simply exist happily in his paradise? Why make us suffer?

 

No one but you said evil is negated by freewill.

Because there is freewill, evil exists.

And then there is the larger picture. I am sure that you like have a planet that is habitable? Well, part of what keeps it habitable is plate tectonics, which we KNOW causes earth quakes. We KNOW where the fault lines are ... and yet poeple live there anyway despite the risk.

So, you were saying about 'right' and the MUST follow again?

I mean if a river floods all the time and you build a house right next to said river .... whose fault is it that you lost the house in a flood? Such evil, huh?

Have you thought this through, or is this another club?

 

I did not say those attributes negate free will nor did I say God is forcing the choice. I said those attributes ensure that God is absolutely always right, a true believer in such a being would be making an insane choice to disobey him. A true believer of such a being would not disobey that being, for then they are either insane or not a true believer.

Atheists do not believe in such a being that absolutely knows right and wrong, they are simply not "True believers" as such it does not apply to them. Just as it would not apply to anyone that did not attribute omniscient and omnipotence to God.

This is all surrounding what a "True believer" would do, of course it is not applicable to atheists.

 

Take away free will, we still have disease, natural disasters, and terrible suffering cause by chance. The problem of evil still exists. With free will, without free will, the problem is still there.

We are talking about God, as an all powerful being if we wanted us to have a habitable planet that did not require plate tectonics we would have one. Our understanding of them, which has not always been the case, does not negate the problem either.

 

Agh, so, basically, when a Christian lies - its because he is insane.

When an atheist does it ... its perfectly normal, even though the atheist knows it is wrong to.

Maybe you should bone up on our actual faith, study sin and grace, forgiveness, and compassion that ar elaced throughout the teachings of Jesus.

But if all you are going to do is apply blantant double standards to the same act in order to call people insane? Based on their choice of religion?

I think such brash generalizations supported by obfuscatory double standards and condemnation are insanity.

You are not a good person because you call other people insane while doing what the insane people do. That just simple hypocrisy.

But, feel free to let me know when atheists are freed from all sin, and transcend the need for Jesus by becoming Jesus. Gnerally speaking, those who claim to be Jesus - are usually insane. It is of course, the natural extension of your thought process?

Or, perhaps I am being a little illogical about your atheism, in exactly the same way you are of our faith? Perhaps.

 

And where would it end? We as humans take until we can't take anymore. The size of the planet would grow to the size of the sun, the gravity would either have to be adjusted, or our physical forms would have to be produced to adapt. As time goes on, the human element would grow exponentially and need ever increasing MORE. But you know what, there is a place like that which has everything we would need and no pain or suffering. Its called Heaven.

 

Its not chance if you know its going to happen is it?

Again, if you build your house on or near a fault line, knowing it there, and there is an earth quake .... that is not chance. The only thing random is he time when it happens.

Its called taking a risk, the benefits of a home and income verses the possibility that an earthe quake may happen soon.

Or, you are victim of Gods wrath by moving into a fault zone - knowingly. Gotcha.

 

Good question, go kill yourself and find out.

 

On your point of free will:
What free will does a starving and deprived child, who is destined to die, have in some hellish corner of the world?

Also, why should god create free will? Why is it so important when he wants us to follow one path with the consequence of disloyalty being eternal agony? Why didnt he just create a world in which we didnt have to choose? It seems like he's just torturing us. We are biologically hardwired, for example, to have sex like other animals, yet God has repeatedly said adultery etc are all crimes to be punished by death. Notice also how God gives free will yet orders humans to tyrannize others out of exercising such will in order to act a certain way, even though that correct behavior goes against our natural disposition as humans - which is how HE designed us?!? Can you not see the total cruelty and inhumane nature of God's work? We humans have far better imaginations and conceptualizations of how the world should work.

 

What? I am showing you that absolutly idiotic notion of evolution and how humans disprove any notion that it happens. Essentially, we have evolved so much, that we can subvert mother nature.

 

But for a person to intentionally disobey a direct command by a being they believe to be always right, means that they are doing what they think is bad for themselves. Tell me how could someone possibly justify that?

As an atheist I do not find lying to be automatically wrong. I do not believe in any such being and am not at the whims of their commands. I have my own mind to guide my decisions on what is best.

I was raised a roman catholic. I know the catholic and christian faith. There is no double standard, as atheism has no such being to follow and Christianity does. I do not do what they do, as I do no believe in such a being then disobey them. Atheists can not act in the same manner, as they do not have a supreme being to disobey.

I am not Jesus, nor do I need Jesus, you are attempting to apply tenets of your faith to atheism. It simply does not work.

 

That isnt an answer. According to God, what is the point in living? Go on tell me. Oh wait, dont tell me God has ordered you to live yet hasn't told you what the point of it all is?

 

Define "subvert mother nature". What is "mother nature" btw?

 

I am god, I can whatever I want to solve those issues.

 

It is God, an all powerful being, why does it have to end? As noted size is only one solution that would not result in such suffering, you could change sex drives, gestation periods, fertile time periods, lifespans, or any number of other methods.

 

People disobey orders in battle all the time. Freewill, you can still choose. As an atheist, its a far more relevant question? Why do YOU not follow it when you cannot find a damb thing Jesus says that you disagree with? Insanity is it?

You are basically negating freewill in order to call people insane. That is about YOU, not us.

Additionally, and worse, we know that plate tectonics replenish many of the things needed to sustain life on earth. Billions, over the aggregate, lead full and rich lives as a result of the natural process. However, you now choose to call it evil - because some people die in natural disaters - imbuing scientific understanding with moral condemnation to ignore benefit and use fault to belittle someone else's faith?

Like I said, atheism is not overtly concerned with science, just the old bash. You define yourselves solely by finding fault in others and ignoring the same faults in yourself. That brother, is anything but righteous, moral, and correct.

And yet atheists do it anyway? Insanity.

 

Well for one, we didn't always know it was going to happen, nor do we always know now. Even if we do know there is a risk in a certain location, what is their purpose in the first place, just to create an unnecessary risk to people?

 

Well for one, we didn't always know it was going to happen, nor do we always know now. Even if we do know there is a risk in a certain location, what is their purpose in the first place, just to create an unnecessary risk to people?