In Spite it all Russia is winning

From watching most of the MSM you might think that Russia is getting their clocks cleaned in Ukraine. You might also think that the Russian economy is imploding.

On closer inspection, sure Russia didn't get the cake walk and possible total takeover of Ukraine, but they likely will achieve their goals of taking more land in the resource rich eastern part of Ukraine. They have also through their brutal military campaign reduced a large part of Ukraine to dust. They may not overthrow the government, but I'm not sure what will be left to govern? Ukraine has fought with more valor and bravery than anyone thought they could. Russia, through the military campaign has looked incompetent, but lets be fair, they are not just fighting Ukraine. NATO, is pumping billions of dollars worth of weapons to the Ukrainians. This is not the much advertised war of Russia Vs. Ukraine, it has evolved to more of a proxy war of Russia V. NATO, especially the USA.

On the economic side, a big deal was made at first that the Russian Ruble was reduced to practically nothing. But Russia , through several means, ie, raising their own interest rates, trying to get paid for their resources in Rubles and other means has brought their currency back 100 percent.
Sure the sanctions hurt Russia, but the dramatic rise in natural gas and oil prices goes right to Putins bank account.

Russia may not have many vocal allies, but behind the scenes big Countries like China and India are big supporters of the them.

Putin may not have the easy victory he envisioned, but on balance, despite how much he is being criticized, I believe that sadly he is still getting most of what he wanted, and most of the cost is being paid by the many Countries, some who are friends and some who claim to be enemies, but all who are still buying his ever increasingly more expensive natural gas and oil.

 

And Americans like Sheep, will continue to buy products from China and India, because were addicted to their crappy cheap ****. We've become a Nation populated by stupid people that don't put America first.

 

They have failed in their primary objective at exorbitant cost, the very definition of defeat. The rest is yet to play out.

 

One of the main reasons they failed at total domination of Ukraine was because of the billions of dollars America and others are pouring into Ukraine. As far as the cost, a lot of that is being picked up by many Countries, including NATO Countries as they eagerly buy Russias natural gas and oil at the highest prices in years. True , what happens next is yet to be determined, but at the very least Russia has neutralized Ukraine by bombing them to a remnant of what they were, and likely will gain some territory in the end.

 

And they haven't even reached the hard part yet: holding onto whatever they manage to grab. They have flubbed the conventional battle. Imagine how they'll perform when things get truly unconventional.

 

Dollars laying on the ground don't shoot bullets.

Russia completely under estimated the desire for soverinity of the Ukrainans, thinking thier propaganda claims of liberation would not only validate their invasion, but that they would have support.

 

I think the families of +10,000 dead Russian soldiers would disagree with the notion that Russia is winning.

 

If they feel they can do so without being executed (or are willing to brave the threat)

 

For now Putin is Russia, and I don’t think he cares how many people on either side die as long as he gets what he wants. He controls the narrative and what the the people hear through State controlled media. Most of the brainwashed Russians think Putin is the greatest.

 

Three things:

1- The war is not over.... and the Donbass is far from being under Russian control.

If the NATO weapons arrive safely and the Ukrainian army continues to fight as it has since the beginning of this war, it is impossible for Russia to win.

2- Ukraine only has to gain time.

The more time passes, the more the cost of the war becomes unbearable for Russia.

While Ukraine can count on the unwavering support of the richest nations on this planet.

A conservative estimate of Russian casualties is 9,000 soldiers killed in one month.

That would be 27,000 men in three months.

Even for an authoritarian country like Russia, this kind of loss would be a disaster that would wake up public opinion.

NATO is now aiming at a regime change in Russia.

This means that even if the war ended tomorrow morning, no sanctions would be lifted as long as Putin remains in power.

And if Putin leaves, it is very likely that his successor will be open to territorial concessions in Ukraine.

3- When the war is over, Ukraine will be entitled to a 'Marshall Plan' of historic proportions, at least equivalent to that which benefited Japan and Germany after WW2.

 

We must remember that there is no such thing as an easy job in modern warfare. The only exception is where the populace has a very low alligence to their leader.

For evidence of this, look at Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya.

 

Yeah let us not underestimate what a guerrilla war against the Russians would entail, they're not nice people like us or the Yanks or Anzacs, the massacres we've uncovered in the past week would be par for the course.

 

This is misinformation since I assume you're referring to the misinformation that Russia is attempting to reinstate the former boundaries of the USSR...That wasn't the goal of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Russia wanted to:
(1) Get rid of the current government of Ukraine.
(1A) Get rid of the Russian hating and Putin hating influences within and without the current government of Ukraine.
(2) Prevent Ukraine from becoming a member of NATO.
(3) Liberate the republics in the Donbass to the east of Ukraine who voted never to be part of Ukraine and to prevent Ukraine from killing the dissidents in the Donbass regions.

Russia, IMO, achieved goals 2 and 3 and will constantly work on achieving goals 1 and 1A.

 

Nope, the winners will be other fossil fuel exporting countries but not Russia.

Also, China and Russia are not friends. Xi certainly finds it convenient that Russia is using up its military. China needs raw materials and would like to get them for free from the Russkies.

 

Here you can see what comrade Pootin really wants:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Historical_Unity_of_Russians_and_Ukrainians
Also here: https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blo...ew-ukraine-essay-reflects-imperial-ambitions/

 

Dude, Putin is no comrade. You need to get the facts straight. In fact, Russia's economy is more capitalist-based (and less than communist) than the US's economy (and most of the economies of the rest of the world).

Is Putin an authoritarian, even a fascist? Maybe. But there are quite a few fascists out there in the world right now...There definitely are fascist elements within and without the Ukranian government, for example. Like I posted, get your facts straight.

 

And Pootin is one of those fascists. He's the Adolph Hitler of the 21. century.

 

Well said, Rob.

 

This is pretty much how I see it too. Did Russia want to topple the government and take over the whole Country? Yes I believe they did. But there real goal was what you and me laid out in our posts. If Putin is not able to topple the Ukrainian government , he will leave Zelensky with a total wreck to govern over.

The war is costing both sides billions of dollars. As I’ve said, Putin is having most of his end financed by many countries, including several NATO countries that buy his natural gas and oil at the highest prices they have been in years.

 

Have they though? Dating back to their Soviet days, the idea of sacrificial lambs is insignificant to Russia, Russia can wage a prolonged conflict unless it doesn't want to anymore(see: Afghanistan.). Meanwhile, the Western Powers cannot continue to bleed in an economic war where Russia is still a natural producer of oil and there aren't anymore shocks to be had. Where a win-win deal could've existed, both parties chose the wrong outcome but Russia is fine with a pythric victory, but for us that's the same as a defeat. We wanted a sovereign Ukraine State, we have half of one and a Russian encirclement.

 

It's only been like a month or two at most. NATO predicts this conflict could last years. Buckle up could get WAY worse. If Russia and NATO go at it.... we are all doomed. I have a strong feeling that if this goes on for years like NATO predicts, it's only a matter of time before we see "tactical" nuclear weapons (10-50 kilotons) being used.

 

Russia makes basically the same(billions)money selling their oil and natural gas on the open market as any other Country.

Guys like Putin and Chinas Xi have no real friends. They have more like allies, or better yet they seek out common enemies and unite against them. Russia, China and several other Countries would like nothing better than to take America down a few notches and will work together whenever possible to achieve that goal.

 

America and many other countries would be in a much better place right now if they didn’t spend so much time going green and swearing off fossil fuels , while guys like Putin get richer and richer from them. Much of the world is now forced to bend over and pay Putin no matter how high the price goes. Putin now gets to use that money to wage war, devastate and kill countless innocent people. But hey, at least we have windmills.

 

Oh, I have no doubt about that. Just saying that they are going to take more losses themselves just holding on to the territory they've taken than they have in places like Chechnya.

 

Being less dependent on Russian oil would make us more dependent on Russian oil? Meanwhile, I have a feeling that Putin's oil exports are going to go down, not up.