Is God the Great Gamer?

An interesting perspective .. albeit "heretical" - I think this is more along the lines of what the early church fathers had in mind - never was this whole "Co-Equality" thing part of the deal .. While God is Equal to Jesus . obviously - Jesus is not equal to The Father - The early Church Fathers were Subordinatiests .. Believed Jesus to be Subordinate to the Father.

 

That is not what Luther meant - it is however what James meant - after calling early Pauline Christians promoting the Faith Alone doctrine Foolish.

I am suprised you are asking such questions about the works vs Faith debate .. given it is one of the big ones.. Consult the Sermon on the mount for a summary of what "Good Works" entails .. not just positive - such as charity - love thy neighbor .. but also negative .. let ye who is without sin cast first rock .. and all else summed up by the Golden Rule.

 

There's a word for acquiring, reinterpreting, and blending foreign cultures into one's own: syncretism. It has been a constant feature of human societies.

I speak Hebrew, I understand roots. Yam still means sea in Hebrew, and Dagan means cereal. Tammuz is a summer month in the Hebrew calendar. I wonder if the names of gods became everyday objects, or was it the other way round.

I think the matter of where and how did Hebrew tribes acquire their myths and language is more complex, there were many other influences in the region than just Ugarit. Ugarit itself was cosmopolitan, so influences went both ways, in and out.

There's no evidence for the Exodus, and the Egyptians themselves have no other source for it than the biblical story, so it probably never happened.

 

Yes, I know that seemingly identical Hebrew letters are pronounced differently (or seemingly different letters are pronounced the same).

Translations and transliterations of names are problematic. It's the same for my hometown Bucuresti. Suceava is the closest I was to Iasi. Funny thing is, took me several days to begin to understand what people around me were saying even though they were talking in my own native tongue!

There are more problems with the Gospels version of events than just the New Moon on the wrong day. For instance, Sanhedrin never assembled on Passover eve. Nothing Jesus did or said warranted a death sentence according to Sanhedrin's own rules.

 

Thanks for the clarification!

It isn't any specific text that I challenge - I challenge the concept of a book written by man as 'the Word of God'. I challenge its validity since it has been translated and rewritten countless times. I don't rely upon a book for my Faith.

 

1) Capstone - I would hope they would find writing of some kind -

2) What you have surmized about Zadok is what the Jewish virtual Library states.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/zadok

3) Worshiping other Gods .. Saul names his two Sons after Baal .. Merib-Baal and EshBaal (man of Baal) .. suggesting that Israelites - northern Kingdom - really did not dislike Baal near as much as the later scribes would suggest. These Scribes are so put out by these names that they change them .. substituting Bosheth (shame) - Merib-Bosheth .. and Ish-Bosheth

What is interesting about this - is that clearly the scribes did not invent the entire OT - as they would not have to make such changes .. so they were working from older documents -- at least in some cases.

4) If one reads the Bible - you will find that the Israelites spend almost no time worshiping YHWH.

Moses leaves for a few weeks .. what do the people do . resume worshiping the El- Ashera-Baal Trinity -- Golden Calf. Not only do they do this .. they do it at the behest of Aaron .. the brother of Moses.

After having tent of lords presense follow them around for years -- the people are still worshiping other Gods .. as we are told by Joshua.

Stop the presses .. what about all the laws in Deuteronomy - paraphrasing " if a few in a town are worshiping other Gods .. the entire town must be killed -- men women -children - and even animals"

Clearly the Israelites were not following these laws .. and in all likelihood these laws were a much later addition.

OK .. so no worship of YHWH prior to Moses -- YHWH himself tells us that Abe did not know the name of YHWH. Not worshiping YHWH solely during the time of Moses .. and still worshiping other Gods at the end of Joshua's life. Shortly after Joshua's death we are told that the Israelites go back to worshiping other Gods .. dragging YHWH out only during War-time it seems.

Saul is naming his children after Baal -- David has folks in his army with similar names. and Solomon .. what is he doing ? 1 Kings 11

So both the Northern and the Southern Kingdom (Jerusalem) have forgotten all about YHWH .. its a Pagan Paradise. complete with those nasty Child Sacrifice Gods .. the Israelites happily sacrificing children to these Gods.

After Solomon - things only get worse for YHWH -- 1 Kings 14

By the time Elisha comes on the scene -- he tells is he is the only Prophet for YHWH in all of Israel - 450 for Baal 400 for Asherah
1 Kings 18.

This goes on for a few more centuries .. then the Northern Kingdom falls to the Assyrians ~ 700 BC .. Judah still rages on for a few more hundred years .. worshiping other Gods .. until just before the Babylonian Captivity .. when "the book of the Law" is found during King Josiah's reign .. and the people go back to YHWH .. and then get wiped out by the Babylonians.

Who knows when this book was lost - but the people had forgotten all about YHWH so would not have paid much attention to this book anyway.

There you have it ..

 

Apparently you deny the ability of the Creator to preserve His word that he presents to a People He loves and created for relationship. That is the big divide.

 

That about sums it up.

 

He has an agenda (and a false one at that.)

It's like when your government lies and claims it takes no position on the independence of Slovenia, Croatia, Kosovo-Metohija, Montenegro et al while it is secretly arming them and secretly telling them they'll back them.

Then by your own admission the gospels aren't worth the paper they're written on, since it is fallible, which means your god-thing either doesn't exist or has dementia (which might explain why your god-thing is so confused all the time) not to mention it proves that the translators who claim to be inspired by a god-thing when translating aren't connected to any god-thing.

You're grasping at straws.

Which transcript?

1) #45 (Chester Beatty) circa 250 CE contains gospels and Acts 4-17, Mark (the Caesarean version); Matthew, Luke, John (a mix of Alexandrian and Western)

2) #66 (Bodmer) circa 200 CE contains parts of John

3) #75 (Bodmer) circa 225 CE papyrus contains parts of Luke and John usually agreeing with Codex Vaticanus.

4) Codex Sinaiticus circa 350 CE. This is the only complete version of the New Testament.

5) Codex Alexandrinus circa 450 CE. It is nearly complete and very close doctrinally to Codex Sinaiticus, except for the Epistles. There are more than 40 disputed lines of text between Codices Alexandrinus and Sinaiticus.

6) Codex Vaticanus circa 350 CE. All of Revelation is missing, as are 46 chapters of Genesis, thirty Psalms, all of the pastoral epistles, and Hebrews 9 thru 13.

7) Codex Ephraemi Rescriptus circa 450 CE. Most of you wouldn’t even recognize this as the New Testament, we’re talking 100s of lines of disputed text. It contains portions of every book except for 2 Thessalonians and 2 John.

Codex Bezae/Cantabrigiensis circa 450 CE. This book contains the gospels and Acts only.

9) Codex Regius circa 750 CE. Only the gospels. It most often agrees with Codex Vaticanus. Again, several hundred lines of disputed text.

10) Codex Washingtonianus circa 425 CE. A Byzantine work of portions of the gospels only. Parts of John appear to be copied from Codex Alexandrinus.

11) Codex Koridethi circa 850 CE. Gospel parts only. Parts of Mark appear to have been quoted from the works of Origen and Eusebius in the 3rd and 4th Centuries respectively.

12) Codex Athous Laurae circa 900 CE. Contains parts of gospels, Acts, most of Paul and the Epistles. A mix of the Alexandrian, Western and Byzantine doctrines. Hundreds of lines of disputed text.

If you're confused about doctrines, there were many flavors of christianity which had many different views of Jesus and conflicting texts.

The Nicean flavor was coerced upon everyone under penalty of death as decreed by Roman emperors, who, you know, were experts in such matters being the pontifical theologians they were.

As far as being smudged, Phlegon said:

"In the 4th year of the 202nd Olympiad, there was a great eclipse of the Sun, greater than had ever been known before, for at the sixth hour the day was changed into night, and the stars were seen in the heavens. An earthquake occurred in Bythinia and overthrew a great part of the city of Nicea."

The 4th year would be June 32 CE to June 33 CE, however Greek symbols for the cardinal numbers 1st and 4th are nearly identical (Α and Δ). That could be an orthographic error, but only the 6th hour mentioned matches the gospel accounts and the rest of the gospel accounts fail.

Note that Bythinia is up on the Black Sea, about 1,100 miles (1,800 km) from Jerusalem, so, no, they would have no knowledge of an earthquake there.

Looks like someone exaggerated a whole big bunch.

 

I see this as you working to dig up trivia that is reasonably irrelevant from a religious point of view.

Don't get me wrong. As an atheist, I don't have any big investment in John. And, I'm sure there are inaccuracies that came into the religion from many sources and causes. I'm not doubting what you have found, in fact it's interesting.

But, surely the larger issue with the history and accuracy of the Abrahamic faiths comes in what we see TODAY - massive divisions on just about every issue of religion one can identify.

Of course, that is partly because religion has NO successful decision making methodology.

If one is looking for holes, try comparing all the variants we have today!!!

And, that includes the most fundamental of questions - like who was Jesus, how does one get to heaven (whatever that is), how is God's help and praise for the slaughter of Jericho, carried out as it was for stealing property, consistent with what Christians attribute to Jesus, who is one with God?

It would be nice if they could get the date and location of a serious Earthquake right. But, ...

 

If you need to get rid of a threat fast you break a few rules.

 

How does self-amputation improve humanity? If you think it does, when will you gouge out your eyes and chop off your hands?

 

Did you break your new-born donkey colt's neck or did you redeem it with a lamb?

 

The Exodus was the explosion of the Egyptians from the Levant when they lost that part of their empire.

 

If you think you know which parts of the Bible should be ignored, you better be right.