Is it possible to change your opinion?

Discussion in 'Political Science' started by yangforward, May 14, 2022.

  1. mamooth

    mamooth Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump promised Putin he'd pull the USA out of NATO, essentially surrendering to Russia, making him possibly the weakest president in US History. He's up there with Neville Chamberlain in the annals of history.

    Ukraine didn't attack Russia and would never attack Russia. NATO didn't attack Russia, and would never attack Russia. Thus, Russia's attack was entirely unprovoked.

    Now, change my mind with evidence instead of feelings.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2022
  2. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

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    When we are children, our opinions are based upon those of our parents or anyone in authority over us. Once we have the ability to think for ourselves and take the time to research any given topic, our opinions can change. Mine certainly did.

    I think its more difficult as adults because much of what we consider our character to be is based upon our views and opinions. We would have to recognize fault in ourselves if we are to change our opinions. It isn't impossible, but its certainly harder.
     
  3. Kris P. Bacon

    Kris P. Bacon Newly Registered

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    The strongest societies are built on shared values. Diversity is not a strength it’s a weakness and you can now see the results of that throughout the west as we’re practically at war against each other. If you were to go out and ask 50 people what their idea of freedom is, you’d get 50 different answers and very few would say, ‘a cohesive society built on shared values.’

    What happened to those who believed we were right to invade Iraq because Saddam had WMDs? They’re still with us and didn’t change their beliefs; the media pressed a switch and they moved on to the next belief.

    Note how easily we moved from the belief of Covid the great plague that only vaccinations would save us from to the belief that Ukraine are days away from defeating a collapsing Russia.

    When it’s all over and Ukraine has been carved up by Russia and the European Union, with maybe Poland grabbing a bit of historically lost land, there’s no point starting a thread asking the believers if they’ve changed their minds. In the collective amnesia that follows they’ll already have moved on to the next belief.
     
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  4. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Political opinions are perhaps the deepest shared values, and that is why the quickest way to be rejected by a group is to make a political statement opposing the one they hold.

    In a red state expressing a pro-abortion opinion, or making an anti-abortion statement in a blue state is a quick way to becoming rejected.


    Pointing out to someone faults in their political beliefs is easy because most political beliefs are incoherent, but if you do it successfully they will be deeply offended.
     
  5. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I speculate that the reason (Kris P. your presence makes me think harder and choose my words more carefully) people are so touchy about analysis of their political beliefs is because it is seen as a commentary on their intelligence.

    I would suggest the reason people think political opinion is an intelligence test is that political information is believed to be commonly available to all, so anyone reaching a wrong conclusion must be stupid.
     
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  6. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This puts political opinions in a kind of no man's land, and I'm sure that is how the elite who run the country want it.

    Beliefs are just parroted from something on the news. The news is known to be legally classed as just entertainment, yet it sounds real and serious and video footage makes it all real, yet if the person learns the video footage is years old and was taken somewhere else, they don't really care because after all, it is just entertainment.

    People believe it firmly enough and long enough to spend a fortune on weapons for some war somewhere, but then when it is debunked they don't learn because by then some other 'tragedy' has come to the fore that needs their immediate attention.
     
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  7. Kris P. Bacon

    Kris P. Bacon Newly Registered

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    Yes, we here in the outside world ‘over there’ know that America is deeply divided and that politics is not just a preferred style of government, but almost a lifestyle choice.

    If in 2020 Biden polled an estimated 81 million votes and Trump 74 million, it seems sort of ridiculous to expect that anyone outside America (and the other half of those in it) should buy into the preferred preference of one side, or even that the other 8 billion of us outside the US really give a toss about it.

    No political party is 100% right and everyone else wrong. Both Democrats and Republicans have some good ideas (and equally bad ones), but those who buy into this one world view soon find themselves cheering for fascism, whether that be corporate or liberal. Proud Boys v Antifa, Obama the returning Messiah v Trump sent by God … Not original and what made 20th century Europeans murder each other in large numbers as they fought over who had come to save them.

    I was thinking of posting an ‘America, What’s Wrong’ thread, but reading between your lines, perhaps I’ll tweak it and send it over to Pravda where I sometimes do a columnist piece for them as independent views don’t go down well on western media sites. :)
     
  8. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The trick here is an unopposed lie gets believed. Biden told 'a whopper' when he stated that Russia, without provocation, attacked the Ukraine.

    That was nonsense but easy to believe.
     
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  9. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Provocation ('poking the Bear'):

    Warsaw Pact West did not disband NATO.png
     
  10. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The present Russian leader made this very clear even back in 2007:
    Pres Putins last friendly warning.png
     
  11. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  12. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Pres. Putin made it very clear that allowing NATO into Ukraine was a red line not to be crossed.

    But Biden during a phone call exceeding one hour, assured ex(?) comedian Zelenskyiii that the US would back him against Russia and his entry into NATO.

    Zelenskyiii seemed unaware that Biden had a few months previous left Afghanistan with none of the original promises fulfilled, and under other presidents, other countries had likewise been abandoned after the weapons makers had made enough money.

    We are used to Biden being stupid, but what was Zelenskyiii thinking?

    Former US Ambassador to Moscow on the red line.png
     
  13. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Even George Kennan, celebrated diplomat, historian, and author of the cold war policy of containment, warned against NATO expansion:

    George Kennan on NATO expansion.png
     
  14. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    About changing opinions - people didn't admit they were wrong and change, they just got fed up with being tricked and abandoned the whole stupid war.
     
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  15. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The US public has progressively become aware we were lied to, but whereas I am interested in why the lie was so compelling, most people took the direct route and just consigned all interest in Biden's war in Ukraine to the trash can of history and moved on.

    But the US is still involved. Here's the thing, the US may feel adding another country to the collection of 'our' countries is worth the cost, but

    it isn't.

    It is so expensive and risky we may lose them all, and Latin America while we are over-reaching to get one more country in Eastern Europe.
     
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