Is socialism the future?

Only capitalism can pay for universal healthcare.

 

It's a nice theory, but you left out human nature.

The minute you introduce the idea that needs will be met, a certain type of human will immediately find ways to turn their wants into needs. And they've been doing just that since social security was introduced .. though more overtly and overwhelmingly since social responsibility fell out of fashion.

 

Is that a real road?

How is it possible that you could need roads THAT wide? With THAT many lanes? How can there be so many cars in one area?

 

That is not an actual picture, but that is how it looks. Yes, we quite a few people in Miami/Ft Lauderdale metro (nearly 7 million), which is not a large area since its sandwiched between the Atlantic ocean and Everglades swamp (biggest swamp i the world).

This is a pic before the expansion

 

My reply was predicated on:

So, it depends on what definition of socialism you are using.

 

So?

 

I live close to a city of roughly the same size, and we have nothing like that. A few flyover "pretzel" interchanges, but the biggest roads are at most 6 lanes wide (in total, not per side). Once you get to the inter-city sections you're down to four lanes in total. Beyond those, it's two lanes unless you're on a major interstate route - which will vary between two and four lanes.

My understanding is that we're in the top ten of cars per capita, so maybe it's just our overall population. We also have good public transport, so maybe we use our cars less here.

 

Miami





There is even a song about it

 

I think it must be related to public transport. We just don't see that concentration of car commuting. There's heavy trafffic at peak hours of course, but nothing like this.

 

Define help. We've been fighting the war on poverty for nearly sixty years and poverty is winning going away.

 

False assumption. The same way as capitalism can function even when not everyone trades fair and many use lobby to distort fair trade, socialism can work if there is freedom of speech. As in any system there always will be leeches and parasits.

 

Social programs, funded through mandated taxation which results in jail time of not paid, is capitalism?

So, taking that to the extreme, communism is capitalism?

 

Intentionally obtuse.

 

Don't be so hard on yourself.

 

It is devolving, going backwards. Only for the elite is it upwards/forwards.

Down the toilet with the current settings. Those settings are placed on humanity by others who possess the grandeur of believing humanity can't think for themselves, so they'll do it for us.

Pretty much. It's the lube used before the insertion of communism.

Yep, that's what the UN is for.

Yes and no. If democracy is morphing into socialism, and then socialism morphing into communism then yes, but as two separate identities, no.

 

Not in a system predicated on work-to-eat. If you try leeching in that system, you starve.

 

Excellent response! Bravo!

 

Yes, in some senses what we think of as state communism (aka collectivism), is capitalism. After all, its purpose is to keep the masses dependent, while the elites profit from that dependence. What we think of as libertarianism, is actually much closer to collectivism.

Once you distinguish between voluntary collectivism and state collectivism, it's easy to see this.

 

Miami does have a rail system, but it's probably not extensive enough to make much difference.



And I'm not sure it would make much difference if it was more extensive. People love their cars.

 

The phrase "war on poverty" is just rhetoric like the war on crime --and like the war on crime the best you can do is take the sting out of poverty with some social crafted help and put a dent in crime but none of these are going away, ever, because it's part of human nature.

 

Interesting! I'd much rather take a train and read a book, than have to deal with peak hour traffic. It feels like extra free time in my day, instead of 'work'.

Here's a rail map from one of our similar sized (actually slightly smaller) cities. You can see why driving isn't an attractive option, when you can get into the city easily and comfortably - and for less than the cost of driving.

 

Oh you can definitely make crime 'go away'. Have you never visited a country or society where crime is incredibly rare? I've lived in a such a country, personally .. just one of the many where crime is so rare that fear of it is practically unknown.

The difficulty in the West is that those in charge are set on enabling crime, so they wouldn't dream of doing what it takes to make it go away.

 

Yes, Florida obviously does not believe in public transportation.

 

Just eyeballing, but it looks like Sydney has a more extensive rail system than Miami-Dade. I no longer have to commute (working from home and all that) but when I did, I would have much preferred taking the rail and reading a book than fighting traffic, but our local rail system is focused on downtown, and unless I worked with a block or two from the two downtown rail stations, I would have ended up walking several miles to my job.

The problem in the US is the population density just is not high enough to make public transportation worthwhile except in a couple of areas.

 

Yes, its there but its not enough, and does not connect to Ft Lauderdale or to most suburbs, but at least they opened the airport link.