Is Taxation Theft?

Taxation is a correction to alleviate too harmful effects of theft committed by the rich.

 

Are you saying that voluntary interactions between people (which is how bill gates, richest man evah got rich) is theft, but government using the threat of force to take money from people is just a 'correction'? That seems a bit countra-intuitive.

 

"1) pay the debts.
2) provide for the common defense
3) and general welfare of the United States.

There is no option to steal from one citizen to benefit another citizen. There is no restatement of Marxism's central principle of taking from each according to his ability to redistribute that wealth according to his need. Nearly everything today's federal government does is unconstitutional and therefor tyrannical."

I believe I made it clear that paying taxes to fund Constitutional programs is legitimate. Paying taxes to fund programs that are unconstitutional is theft. Why is that so hard for some people? If someone with a tenth grade education can point to the enumerated power as the basis for a program then it is most likely Constitutional. Otherwise it is not and the federal government's continued abuse of power is contingent upon finding enough feeble minded people who believe it requires enormous specialized expertise to understand the Constitution.

I have not accepted that the federal government has a right to my income. The government has a right to impose taxes. That is not the same thing. I believe that all of us should pay the same percentage and there should be a cap on how much of one's income the government can seize. I believe all politicians should pay twice whatever percentage they decide the rest of us should pay.

 

Redistributive programs are constitutional. If you don't agree, take it up with the SCOTUS.

Theft has a meaning that is independent of law.

If the government has a right to impose taxes, that means that they have a right to a portion of your income. If you accept the taxes, you accept that the government has a right to a portion of your income.

 

Conclusion http://www.publiceye.org/conspire/flaherty/flaherty4.html

The regional Federal Reserve Banks are private owned, but they are controlled by the Board of Governors -- a federal agency whose members are appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate. The Board sets monetary policy and the Federal Reserve Banks execute it. In addition, the Fed does not use any taxpayer money to fund its operations. While the Fed does collect interest on government bonds, the Treasury would have had to make such payment even if they Fed did not hold any bonds. Moreover, the Fed rebates a significant share of its net income to the Treasury each year, revenues the government would not have at all if the Fed owned no government bonds.

 

I have an idea. Why don't you refuse to pay your taxes. That way, after the IRS incarcerates you, we won't have to read such drivel.

Put your money where your mouth is!

 

If you don't want to get raped, renounce your rental agreement and move. You aren't being forced to live in a bad neighborhood. Good luck finding a neighborhood with no rape and a high standard of living, however.

 

right up at the top of that page it says:

Myth #4: The Federal Reserve is a privately owned bank out to make a profit at the taxpayers' expense.

that's what i said, it gives all its net profits to the government and it does

so you've failed to show me a private bank that does that

fed banks aren't private commercial banks

they're part of the federal reserve


the fed is not controlled by any private bank

but by a publicly appointed board of governors

many confuse 'owning' with 'controlling', private banks may own shares in fed banks

but they don't have control over the federal reserve system, much like how a private

individual may own shares of a large corporation

but has little say in the day to day operations



here it is, straight from the horse's mouth:

The Federal Reserve System is not owned by anyone and is not a private, profit-making institution. It's an independent entity within the government, having both public purposes and private aspects.

As the nation's central bank, the Federal Reserve derives its authority from the U.S. Congress. It is considered an independent central bank because its decisions do not have to be ratified by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branch of government, it does not receive funding appropriated by Congress, and the terms of the members of the Board of Governors span multiple presidential and congressional terms. However, the Federal Reserve is subject to oversight by Congress, which periodically reviews its activities and can alter its responsibilities by statute. Also, the Federal Reserve must work within the framework of the overall objectives of economic and financial policy established by the government. Therefore, the Federal Reserve can be more accurately described as "independent within the government."

The twelve regional Federal Reserve Banks, which were established by Congress as the operating arms of the nation's central banking system, are organized much like private corporations--possibly leading to some confusion about "ownership." For example, the Reserve Banks issue shares of stock to member banks. However, owning Reserve Bank stock is quite different from owning stock in a private company. The Reserve Banks are not operated for profit, and ownership of a certain amount of stock is, by law, a condition of membership in the System. The stock may not be sold, traded, or pledged as security for a loan; dividends are, by law, 6 percent per year.

The Federal Reserve's income is derived primarily from the interest on U.S. government securities that it has acquired through open market operations. Other sources of income are the interest on foreign currency investments held by the System; fees received for services provided to depository institutions, such as check clearing, funds transfers, and automated clearinghouse operations; and interest on loans to depository institutions (the rate on which is the so-called discount rate). After paying its expenses, the Federal Reserve turns the rest of its earnings over to the U.S. Treasury.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/pf/pf.htm

 

My post did not say you were wrong. I only posted a link to a comment about its profit.

 

the net profits go to the government, the fed doesn't keep any profit

if you're talking about the 6% that goes to fed bank shareholders

i can explain anything about that you don't understand

or you could just read about it at the link

see member banks

www.federalreserve.gov

 

I really have no need for your explanations. I am fully aware of the situation with the fed.

 

your comments make me very skeptical of that

 

the libertarian paradise of Somaila awaits thee. Let not the door hit ya in the butt on the way out.

 

What you are skeptical about is irrelevant.

 

The supreme court is a bulwark of the statist agenda. They support the growing tyranny. There is nothing new there. Mod Edit ~ Focus on the thread topic.

Nonsense. The government does not have an unrestricted right to my wealth. Taxes to pay for programs with no constitutional basis are theft.

 

Why do you believe that is important?

People who believe as you do are intent upon limiting individual freedoms in preference to power exercised by an unlimited state. We are no longer free. Government has become ubiquitous.

 

In the US we're free to pay the G man for everything we buy and everything we already own. We're free to obey arbitrary rules put in place by people we've never met and may never have heard of and if we don't want to, we're free to be kidnapped at gun point and bullied into waving our constitutional right to a trial. The USA has the largest prison population on earth, which allows the rest of us more free space in which to enjoy our incredible bounty of freedoms. Why do you question that? If you don't like living here, you're free to spend years of time jumping through hoops so that you can get transferred to another tax farm. Freedom.

 

1. Hong Kong,
2. Singapore,
3. New Zealand,
4. Australia,
5. Canada,
6. Switzerland,
7. Oman,
8. Ireland,
9. Mauritius,
10. Bahrain,
11. Finland,
12. United Kingdom,
13. Chile,
14. Zambia,
15. Taiwan,
16. Denmark,
17. Estonia and
18. Kuwait

http://www.munknee.com/18-countries-now-have-more-economic-freedom-than-u-s-here-are-the-details/

 

How do we measure and define freedom when making these sorts of comparisons?

 

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/uplo...ations/economic-freedom-of-the-world-2013.pdf

 

Wow. Well, I'm not promising I'll read all of this but I'll give it a shot.

 

No, taxation is fair, because it should be correctly applied for redistribution of wealth. Superrich became so rich, because they underpaid the workers they hired. Many of them got rich, because they got in the right place at the right time or inherited their fortunes. It would be perfectly fair to ask them to share with the society, which had helped them to get so rich.

 

I would agree that it would be perfectly fair to ask them to share with the society. Let me ask: if you paid a friend of yours to rebuild your car would it be fair for him to come by later on and take the car without permission?
Lets say that you have a friend who needs a kidney transplant. If he finds out that you are a compatible donor but are deathly afraid of surgery, would it be fair if he took your kidney?
If you tried to stop him, would it be fair for him to restrain you until you agreed to give him what he wanted? If he couldn't easily restrain you would it be fair for him to kill you?
Trading, rewarding, asking, nagging, preaching, begging and demonstrating can lead to giving, which is fair. Taking is a different matter. Taking without permission is stealing. Stealing is theft.

 

In bold above is such a crock! Used to be we collected taxes to pay for governments which we demand. Now you believe it is government's job to take from the successful and give to the failing miserable. The USA is turning into a rat hole in which enabling welfare is preferred over individual achievement...pathetic...