Is there a right to abortion, and if so, where does the right come from?

Way to paint half the population with the same brush.

Anyway, you are entitled to your opinion, but what most women do to their bodies is none of your business. No law will be enforceable, so it’s a completely moot point.

 

Got ya.

 

Without a way to prove it, the state has nothing. There is no current way for any law enforcement agency to prove any citizen had any specific medical procedure.

 

Getting vaccinated is a medical procedure, and the states and government forced us to show proof of vaccination for any number of reasons, including the ability to travel or obtain employment....

 

That’s an interesting point. If the government is allowed to violate our HIPAA rights, we don’t have them.

That said, I have only needed to show the record to a cruise line, and in restaurants in SF. Never a state or federal agency.

 

Aren't you conveniently overlooking the woman's right to her life and body?

I think reasonable people, and perhaps Roe itself, have tried to draw a middle ground between the rights of the two. However, it appears that that it's not the reasonable people who are trying to find that common ground are the ones driving the discussion and debate. It's the absolutists on both sides who are driving it.

(Kinda reminds me how the Edmund Ruffins and John Browns drove the debate on slavery that led to the catastrophe of the Civil War).

 

The vaccine mandates were wrong, too.

Now, the SCOTUS, like both of our political parties, is arbitrarily trying to have it both ways but it can't.

IMO, the so-called "Roberts Court" has already established itself as one of the most anti-individual rights/pro-government authoritarian courts in American history.

 

Probably a full 90% of them

 

I respect a private company’s right to require their customers be vaccinated.

I am 100% against the state mandate.

 

Source for that stat?

 

I did have the word probably added to it.

Do you have some indication that's probably otherwise?

 

There are many sources for stats on abortions, from independent surveys, to the CDC. Take your pick. They all say pretty much the same thing. Abortions due to rape are around 1.5%. Abortions due to the health and survival of the mother are around 2%. Abortions due to incest are less than 1%. Abortions due to fetal abnormalities and birth defects are less than 1%. So, that leaves around 95% of abortions due to convenience or socio-economic reasons...

Reasons Women Get Abortions [Recently Updated] (hli.org)

3711005.pdf (guttmacher.org)

Abortion Statistics | ALL

Data & Statistics - Reproductive Health | CDC

 

Men don't have the right to agency over their bodies. They can be picked up, inducted into the army and sent to distant jungles in places they never heard of to die or get maimed for life.

So stop your belly aching.

So stop your belly aching.
o

 

Abortions will still happen in states where it is legal, and people in illegal states will travel to legal ones to have the procedure. This notion about unsafe abortions being conducted in secret is nonsense.

As far as HIPAA needing to be repealed in order to prove an abortion takes place is not true. I understand why you think that, but it is not a secret what goes on in medical procedure rooms, and the knowledge of what goes on does not require divulging private health information. Even if we are going to pretend it is not blatantly obvious, it is apparent by virtue of the medical supplies ordered and all employees could be questioned under oath, neither of which requires the divulging of privileged health information of any particular individual.

The concept of abortion clinics operating clandestinely is not realistic even remotely. Certainly not on any grand scale.

 

So then the solution where woman can just get an abortion in another state is null, because they would be wanted for murder in the state they reside in. And the doctor that performed the procedure could be indicted as well?

 

I believe that you are overlooking the fact that things can and do happen **outside** "official authority". For example, there is nothing in writing whereby realtors steer non-white people to certain neighborhoods and communities but it happens every single day. There is nothing in writing that says non-white people are charged higher interest rates or given fewer second chances in criminal court but those happen every day as well.

And, insomuch, there is nothing that indicates the **state** [generic as you state] has the right to control abortions beyond the laws and regulations that apply to medical operation procedures and practices in general, but it happens.

I personally know a doctor that will abort pregnancies if he does not believe the expectant mother should have a baby (usually because the woman is very young and/or the baby is bi-racial). He does this under the guise of a "routine medical exam" and all three women lost their pregnancies within hours of their internal examination.

My point is simply this. When we are discussing what is ethical, moral and/or legal, we have to address the people that act outside written "rules" and acknowledge the ones that pretend to do so while implementing their personal agenda in spite of those safeguards. Otherwise, we are only arguing philosophically, not realistically or even considering the possibilities of the people "gone rogue" within their professions.

 

Im saying there will be no way to prove a crime. Wealthy women will have 100% access. Poor women will not. Same ****, different day.

 

No way to prove a woman had an abortion.

 

The doctor patient confidentiality does not hold up for protecting murders in another state now does it?
If another state subpoenaed him, would the abortionist now have to testify since Abortion is no longer federally protected from being declared murder?

 

It sounds as if you are focusing upon the criminal being the woman, but in reality it is the doctor that would be on trial.

Why would poor women not have access? Surely a tiny fraction of the money that now goes to Planned Parenthood in those states, could be funneled to providing bus tickets for the poor. That is a problem with an easy solution.

 

Yep.

 

The woman comes first.

 

YES.

 

HIPAA

Unless Congress changes the law and declares everyone has health care privacy except women, well, there ya go.

 

Maybe we should be asking the question like this instead of the OP....
Is there a right to killing a human fetus, and if so, where does the right come from?