Is this the dark age in masculinity?

I have not thought of the Roman Empire for many years before reading that on here.

 

I use it the same way it is actually used in the literature and how it was originally meant by the people who came up with the term. It comes from some of the earliest pioneers of the men's movement, the mythopoetic movement, not from feminists by the way. It is meant as a term to describe the opposite of REAL, AUTHENTIC, PRODUCTIVE masculinity. It's all about the unhealthy expectations placed on men that are harmful to both men and women -- unhealthy conceptions of masculinity that lead to not only things like misogyny and bullying and homophobia, but also the types of emotional denial that has led to men living shorter lives, "self medicating" with alcohol, and not seeking help when they legitimately need it. It praises aggression while acting as a foil to more healthy concepts of masculinity that focus on being a provider and protector.

Unfortunately, the most popular "manosphere" influencers today, such as the Tates, Sneako, and Fresh and Fit, lean heavily into exactly this kind of pathetic behavior. We now have a generation of boys obsessed with this stuff. Their idea of masculinity is to make a lot of money, buy fancy cars, bang as many women as possible, have one-sided open relationships with their wives (who are only to speak when spoken to and you should never fall in love with), and deny all emotion besides anger. It's an empty life. When these men die, their wives will be faking their tears at their funerals, and it won't be the only thing they've had to fake.

 

Things improved remarkably when women were allowed to hold power. Early feminism was a great boon to society. It was egalitarian minded. More recent misandrist strains of feminism are harming society. I would not confuse the two.

True.

Women who were promoted into positions they have little aptitude for in the name of gender equity will fail repeatedly, yes. But that doesn't make more egalitarian feminism a negative at all. It has and will enable apt women to succeed to all of our benefit. Same applies to bringing down racial and wealth barriers. When all have opportunity the most apt rise and all benefit.

 

Fair enough.

It was a humorous observation about the "toxic masculinity" sometimes found in holding a door for a lady.

Your second paragraph reveals nothing but a fantasy of your misandry.

 

I've never heard anyone call opening a door for a lady "toxic masculinity." Ever. And I research this stuff all of the time. I'm sure you can find two or three extremists on TikTok who you never heard of before and will never hear about again who said that, but that's about it. And my second paragraph is not a "fantasy." The five men I mentioned are the most influentual social medial figures in the manosphere, but far. It isn't even close. Hell, Andrew Tate was the most Googled man in the world not long ago. And they OPENLY teach EXACTLY what I just mentioned. And, yes, their primary audience is young boys. You can pretend these men don't exist; you can pretend these men aren't influential; you can pretend they haven't said these things, but then it would be you living in a fantasy world. Dude, have you seriously not ever heard of the red pill community?

 

Please share what you think you would do?

Remember EVERYONE around you TREATS you like a girl/woman.

How do you hide/reveal that inside of your FEMALE body you have the MIND of a MALE?

What would happen if you did that?

How would your friends and family react?

What would happen where you work?

What if you had a husband and kids?

Please provide the best answers you can to the questions above.

 

I think that has been boosted and enabled by the anti-male screed from the misandrist sort of feminism gaining power and voice. Guys get sick of being shamed for their gender, so they embrace it and we see nasty behavior against women. Basic tribalism stuff.

Terms like "toxic masculinity" (try talking about toxic femininity and see how people react; even it you carefully specify you only mean when women use gender norms to do nasty things to men such as Amber Heard etc) and "patriarchy" really don't help matters. Toxic masculinity may have originally been meant to mean men behaving badly in a gendered way, but it has become more and more mainstreamed to mean anything masculine. Similar has happened with the word "woke".

 

which five that you named? What post?

So far we got Andrew Tate. Who else?

 

Go back to the post where I talk about what people actually mean when they talk about toxic masculinity. It has nothing to do with being "shamed for their gender." And I've talked about toxic femininity before in a similar vein; no one cared. You can find women talking all of the time about the toxic effect women influencers have had on young girls. And we could just as easily excuse misandry as a reaction to people (like all of the ones I've listed) saying nasty things about women.

 

The Tates, Sneako, and Fresh n Fit.

 

Did you really think I would recognize the actions of people I never heard of and do not mention by name?

If you wanted to discuss it you would just name five.

 

Never heard of them. Are these just your misandric nicknames?

I'm not impressed favorably.

 

I've named the five. Twice.

 

I call BS on you never hearing about the Tates. These aren't my "misandric" nicknames. These are the names they call themselves on their channels.

 

I get it. You don't want to discuss it.

How about you give me a real life example of this "toxic masculinity?"

Can you at least do that?,

 

Sure I heard of Tates. That's the boxer featured in The Simpson's.

 

I disagree. It isn't what you mean by the term or what the term was initially coined to mean but it very much is trotted out that way by many and interpreted that way by many today.

My experience has been different.

Men talking about women using their gender to exploit and harm men (or women) in a variety of ways and calling it toxic femininity isn't met with good reception in my experience.

Not excuse it. But yes, they definitely feed into misandry. They much like man hating feminists spin the wheel of gender conflict. And just like man hating feminists don't represent most women, these guys don't represent most men.

 

I'm sorry you are unaware that people who have channels use titles of their choice in their channels.

Well, all five of these men are examples, so would you like to dive into them? We can start with Andrew Tate. Andrew Tate's vision of masculinity is to manipulate women into making money for you, lie to them to keep them dependent on you, **** as many of them as possible while forbidding them from having other partners, and use them to scam men out of their money. He's also on tape admitting to the physical abuse of women and even rape. Sounds pretty toxic to me. And, again, this guy is the most popular male influencer in the world. He was more Googled than Trump. There is not "misandrist" influencer that comes close to comparing. Hell, some schools now have entire deprogramming efforts because of this stuff.

 

He was a kickboxer and MMA fighter. Then he turned to scams and his camgirl business and selling courses to "help" men learn how to treat women like ****. He was never featured on the Simpsons.

 

That's terrible.

But I never heard of Tate.

I am a bit familiar with J. B. Peterson. Maybe you never heard of him.

 

Your right. It wasn't "Tates" on the Simpsons. The boxing character's name was Drederick Tatum. Cartoon names all look alike to me.

 

I can honestly say that I have never heard of the Tates, Sneako, or Fresh and Fit. Similarly, I have sincerely never heard of the Red Pill Club.

We are living in the internet age where examples of darn near anything are readily available to all. This does not necessarily equate to darn near anything being some giant societal problem as you seem to be asserting. If anything, it speaks to you specifically and what it is that you are seeking out online, or perhaps being directed to by whatever political blogs that you follow etc.

 

Peterson occasionally feeds into incel movement propaganda and other kooky ideas, but overall, he's pretty good. His whole "clean your room" advice is a much better take than anything the Tates or the others I've mentioned have had to offer. In fact, he's one of the best critics of Andrew Tate.

 

These guys are, again, the most popular influencers for boys and young men. By far. There is no comparison. It's a phenomenon. I don't follow any political blogs. This is math. This is based on their number of followers. This is based on metrics on how they are searched. If you had ever looked into any channel, whether video or streaming or podcasting, for anything involving "what it means to be a man," you would have encountered them. Again, Tate was more Googled than even Trump. And, yes, it is a societal problem that schools everywhere are reporting. You may have never heard of these people, but I guarantee you that most of the boys at your local middle school have.

And the red pill is the most influential men's movement. By far. It isn't even close. The only other figures that come close in influence are Peterson and Joe Rogan, the latter of which doesn't really focus on these topics.

If you go to TikTok or YouTube or any podcasting service, these guys are all over the place any time you look up any men's issue. And there are others like Rolo and ModernLifeDating. In fact, good luck finding anyone on these platforms talking about masculinity in a non-toxic way besides Destiny and Aba n Preach. Wait, there is one more, and you might actually like her. She's liberal, but she's anti-feminist. She's getting close to 2 million subscribers on YouTube and this particular video has gotten over 2 million views with around 200,000 likes. She dives deep in to criticizing both the left and the right about masculinity. Meet ShoeOnHead.

The Male Loneliness Epidemic - YouTube

 

I am curious what you think of more centrist but still anti-feminist speakers such as Alexander Grace. He and others like him hold many of the same views but without much misogyny. Maybe why they are less known.