Quote: Originally Posted by WanRen You said it your self Islam has not change since its inception, a thousand year ago and today are still the same. Muslim Girl Married At 12, Fears For Her Life From Her Husband. ABSOLUTELY SHOCKING - YouTube Mass Wedding Organized By Hamas in Gaza 450 girls 6-9 years old. - YouTube Mmmh, mass wedding of little girls organized by Hamas? I wondered why I hadn't read of such a thing in any mainstream-media. So I looked it up and it turns out it's been internet hoax and never happened: Quote: WND received a large volume of e-mail asking the news organization to investigate. Hamas indeed held a mass ceremony last Thursday in which nearly a thousand Palestinians celebrated marriage. Many of the families involved said they could not afford their own wedding party. Each groom received a present of about $500 from Hamas, which said its workers had also contributed 5 percent of their monthly salaries to add to the wedding gift. Ahmed Jarbour, the Hamas official in Gaza responsible for social activity, told WND the youngest girl to marry at the ceremony was 16 years old. He said most brides were above the age of 18. Jarbour, like two other top officials contacted by WND, was offended by the suggestion Hamas would marry off little girls. He explained the minors seen in the video were family of the bride or groom. He said it was tradition for little girls to dress in gowns similar to the bride. He said the little girls walking down the aisle with the grooms are family members of either the bride or groom. A WND review of the video found some of the little girls, speaking in Arabic, state they are at the wedding of a family member. The girls interviewed do not say anything about themselves getting married. Multiple calls to Palestinians who participated in the wedding affirmed the little girls are not themselves the brides. Hamas, meanwhile, hailed the wedding ceremony as a victory. "We are saying to the world and to America that you cannot deny us joy and happiness," Mahmoud al-Zahar, Hamas' chief in Gaza, told the grooms at the event. These are surely no hoax, [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I8K1PDoVxU&feature=player_embedded"]Muslim Girl Married At 12, Fears For Her Life From Her Husband. ABSOLUTELY SHOCKING - YouTube[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GRHD7nmWz0&feature=related"]Two Child Brides Interviewed Who Are Seeking Divorce - 2 - YouTube[/ame] Intellectual Muslims have been slowly speaking out against all these unfortunately they are very small in numbers plus the Islamic leadership don't seem to be interested in educating Muslims that all these child marriages, nijab, discrimination against women and none Muslims are all wrong. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAPKYKhTp8U&feature=feedf"]Arab Intellectual - Muslim Failure - YouTube[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYleXcpbzKY&feature=related"]Too Young to Wed: The Secret World of Child Brides - YouTube[/ame]
There was such outrage in all the Arab newspapers about this 12 year old getting married. In Islam that which is not expressly forbidden is permitted, but at this point the public is clamouring for a minimum age for marriage law to prevent these rare, idiotic abuses.
LOLOL.. Mass wedding of 9 year olds.. Pure WND. That stupid claim has been completely debunked and made WND a laughing stock once again. The 9 year olds are members of the wedding party ... as FLOWER girls.
Mass weddings or no mass weddings, finding examples of bad things in other societies is not remarkable unless you can say that your own society does not have bad things. And we all know that's not the case.
Some more "flower girls" in national geographic: "Whenever I saw him, I hid. I hated to see him," Tahani (in pink) recalls of the early days of her marriage to Majed, when she was 6 and he was 25. http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/06/child-brides/sinclair-photography
I just like to add that so far with so many grooms, where are all the adult brides, that Hamas claim are out there and that the girls are just bride maids? Maybe those girls are proxy to those adult brides? Muslim intellectuals have spoken strongly against all these but still many Muslims refuse to listen and prefer to incorporate all these none Islamic practices to Islam including suicide bombings.
But child brides isn't incorporated in Islam. It's not a common practice among Muslims around the world, only the backwards parts of the Middle East (Fundementalism). It's not permitted in Islam.
Exactly, unfortunately majority of Muslims have incorporated it into Islam and the sad part is very little is being done by the Islamic leaders to properly educate Muslims on what is real Islam because the real Islam is too moderate and liberal it allows equal rights, freedom, free choice, everything that we see in Western countries is what real Islam was (WAS) all about.
Segregating women in prayers inside Mosque is also not part of Islam, but it has become part of Islam when someone probably a powerful Sultan decided he does not want any of his wives to be praying side by side with other males made it part of Islam. The only thing that tells me about this segregation and having women to cover up is that Muslim males are probably too horny or immature that all they can think of when they see women is sex. That is why their main reason to have women cover up like mummies and to be separated from males regardless of relatives is because of sex.
Hold up, what gives you this idea that the MAJORITY of Muslims practice child marriages? Seriously, were does that even come from?
Have most Muslims been speaking up against child marriages? no, have majority of Muslims been educating themselves and other Muslims about child marriages as not part of Islam? very very few, have many Muslims remove that concept of child marriages is not part of Islam? very few. Only the real Muslims have been teaching about child marriages is not part of Islam. That is why it is very rare to hear Muslims speak against such practices instead it is all about excuses. How about segration of women in prayers that too is not part of Islam but have Muslims been listening, NO, they have not instead they insist that it is part of Islam only very few real Muslims mostly in the USA that practice real Islam by praying together with their female members of the family. Catholics teach, "the family that prays together, stay together". [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXFlEJIpkqQ"]Triumphant Hour-Fr. Peyton.flv - YouTube[/ame]
Where to begin..... Okay, lets start with bold #1: While I wouldn't expect you to know this, most Muslims do actually know child marriages have no place in Islam. Which is why child marriages aren't a common practice within the Muslim population. You are so focussed on speaking Muslims speaking out against everything so that the Westerners don't use the actions of a few to judge the majority. Why do we need to speak out against something for you Westerners to not use this action to judge the entire religion? Why don't Muslims speak out? We do. Better question is why this is news to you... www.royaltyinthenews.com/2010/02/02/saudi-princess-speaks-out-against-child-marriage/ news.change.org/stories/muslim-women-speak-out-against-child-marriage www.usaid.gov/press/frontlines/fl_feb11/FL_feb11_WYemen.html Now, wheres the Pope speaking out against priests molesting children? Where's the demonstrations there against that? Where's all the Christians speaking out against this? Maybe it would be fair for me to assume majority of the worlds Christians support the Priests who molest children, because they don't speak out enough. Fortunately, I'm not that dense.... Bottom line, you clearly are not aware what goes on beyond your border and he heads and lives of Muslims. If you want to assume things, go ahead but don't try and slide it by as a fact, because it's not. Salam
If that is the case then we should see more Muslim teachers in remote areas of Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia etc. educating Muslims in this regards, but do we see such thing...I don't think so. There are many injustices that are occurring in Muslim lands that have gone unreported and the only source for help that those victims have is the West because Muslim leaders have either chose to turn a blind eye on those injustices are are silent supporters that it is part of Islam, that is why you will seldom or very rare read any of those injustices committed instead you'll get to read and hear about them mostly in Western media. Do you think the Arab uprising will be successful if it wasn't for the West speaking strongly in support of the protesters. A minority of Muslim speaks out and a majority don't listen. And has the Islamic government of Saudi step in to annul the marriage, no because it is part of Islam, right. And who were the ones that expose those priest, the secular government, while in Muslim lands the government dose not even go after child molesters and rapist, it is the other way around in Islam it is the fault of the victim for being rape or molested not the fault of the rapist, how many reports like this have we read even Islamic clerics preach about manhandling women and Muslim government basically ignores it. The fact is I am very aware of what is going, the problem is many Muslims just can not accept facts. And that is what the Arab spring is all about to change the out look of Islam to make it as a true religion of peace, tolerance and freedom. And how about women segregation, that is not part of Islam but Muslims practice that and strongly declare that is part of Islam, is it part of Islam or not??? I am sure you'll answer it is.
As it turn out, Mohammed did not died a martyr nor saintly death he died from being poison at the hands of an ordinary Jewish woman she was avenging the massacre of her family by Mohammed. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6st_tFj6ouM&feature=feedlik"]Who Killed Muhammad? - YouTube[/ame]
I don't know, do we. I don't live there, and assuming you don't either. So I can't answer that question for the same reason you shouldn't try and answer it. Because neither of us know what goes on other than what we see through the media. And is the media a reliable source for information? Ummm.... Again, how do you know this without being there to see it. You rely on the Western media far to much... Injustices happen all over the world and the. Media only reports it when it sells paper or makes ratings. Or the government wants then too. That isn't a problem in only one part of the world, and quite ignorant to even think that. Majority don't listen? Child marriages aren't a popular occurance in Muslim populations. Why? Because majority of Muslims don't do it. The government? LOL! It was the people who where children who speak out... It has nothing to do with the government... Again you continue posting nonsense... How do you know the governments in tbe Middle East don't go after child molesters and blamed the victims for being raped? And I don't know, how many times have we read Islamic clerics preaching man-handling women? I've read more about Imams and Sheiks preaching against such things actually The fact is you are very delusional. You speak like you live in the Middle East and have personally experienced the stuff you post first-hand when infact you haven't (and it's quite clear you haven't)... There are no facts to accept. The Arab Spring is to remove dictators and give people freedom. Not to change Islam. Wow and you call this post a fact? Women pray in sperate areas in Mosques, not always a room. It isn't mentioned in the Quran but it is practices by the majority of Muslims across the world (unlike child marriages...) but the reason we do not pray together is to prevent distractions when praying. It has nothing to do with treating them unfairly. And I'm not even sure what your point was bringing it up... Salam
Is that really your source? Wow.... This is too easy... Okay, first things first. The Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) say his iorta is being cut. He said it was a pain similar to it. If his iorta was cut, he would of died instantly. Secondly, while the poison killed everybody else instantly the Prophet (PBUH) lasted 3 yeara before his death. Then, he said this which the guy convienently left out: There is a slave among the slaves of Allah (The One God) to whom God has offered the choice between this world and that which is with Him, and the slave has chosen that which is with God. You could actually try reading from some sources with information and and not a guy asking stupid questions without answers, such as for example www.cyberistan.org/islamic/death.html The fact you use a video like that to make a point is priceless... But interesting thought came up... If Mohammad (PBUH) was a false Prophet because Allah SWT let him die, then wouldn't that also make Jesus (PBUH) a false Prophet since according to the Bible Allah SWT also let him suffer and die at the hands of the Jews in a humiliating death also? Just something to think about. Salam
Very is easy indeed, the facts and history of Islam and Mohammed are very clear and easy the problem is Muslims can't see the easy facts and chose to hide behind a curtain of denial. It was a slow agonizing death as the poison slowly creeps into his aorta, while his medicine man try very hard to save him or maybe didn't do enough to save him? You forgot to add this too: "O my dear daughter Fatimah and O my dear aunt Safiyah, spend your efforts in the way of the hereafter for I will not be able to help you against the Will of Allah". "For I will never save you against the will of Allah", was Mohammed warning his daughter and aunt that they will be next to die at the hands of Allah? Ever since after 9/11 more and more people have been reading and researching about Islam and Mohammed and because we in the West are not restricted by Islamist dictatorship we are able to research deeper as to who Mohammed really was, unlike Muslims their education has been totally limited and selective that is why in Muslim lands no Muslims are allowed to question who Mohammed is not are they allowed to research into Mohammed's life and Islam instead they are only to research on what the Islamic leaders have made available. That is why more and more intellectual Muslims are also speaking out, but very few Muslims wants to listen. Jesus Christ died for humanity he was put to death not because he committed crimes, murder someone, massacre any tribes, Jesus Christ was put to death by the Romans because the Pharisees fear Him and because Jesus Christ wills it. Mohammed died for himself he was assassinated by an ordinary Jewish woman whom he had Mohammed had family massacred. In fact, maybe Allah send that woman to assassinate Mohammed for Mohammed's crimes against humanity.
The media is a very reliable source unless you are in denial that no such things are happening in Muslim lands such as discrimination against women, you don't have to be there just go to your local Mosque and ask yourself or see for your self why is it that female members of the family are segregated from male members, is it part of Islam or was it just incorporated into Islam. You see what you are saying, if reports are about the West you'll say it is true but if reports are about Islam and Muslims you'll say it is untrue, who is the bias and does that concur my conclusion that Muslims are in denial. It may not be a popular occurance but it still happens because it is claim to be part of Islam. You provided me a link of Muslim child marriages and some Muslims spoke out against it but that's all, the government that is Islam did not or do not do anything to stop it because those child marriages were done and claim to be part of Islam, so which is it??? Walk the walk and talk the talk, I guess your Mosque are just talk no action that is why many Muslims have migrated to the West in order to have a better future. How do you know you said it your self you don't live there so you don't know. It is about removing dictators and changing Islam to an Islam that respect freedom, equality, and democracy to an Islam that they claim is the real Islam not the present oppressive and racist Islam, unless you are against the real Islam of freedom, democracy, justice and equality?? What kind of distraction, sexual, this only show how immature and horny Muslim men are. This in spite of the fact that Muslim women are already cover up men can still get distracted. If it is not part of Islam then it should not be practice.
What facts? You always talk about Muslims "being in denial" and "ignoring the facts" but I don't see any facts... Oh, so you know how the poison killed him now? Very impressive. What a stupid question... Everybody dies at the Will of Allah SWT just like life it given at the Will of Allah SWT... Do you think they expected to live forever? No. And it doesn't have anything to do with the part you quoted... Again, you speak like you live in the Muslim world... Please provide your sources for the nonsense you post. You don't know how Muslims live, especially outside America... And it's funny, after 9/11 this happened: That is from: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_population_growth As for Jesus (PBUH), the Jews tried to kill him to prove he wasn't a Prophet, like Zainab tried with Mohammed (PBUH) who didn't slaughter her family but killed those 3 men in the war before it. And I got more: Why would he say something like that and pray to God if it's what he wanted? Salam
Well I see you are one of the TFOX News sheep... Oh well. And I can tell you from experience, females aren't segregated from males in the family. And yes, you do have to be there to know whats going on what an ignorant thing to say.... And when did I say everything about the West is true and everything about the Middle East is false? Now you're putting words in my mouth. Who's claiming these child marriages are part of Islam? These marriages aren't ven valid in Islam because you need the consent of BOTH people involved in the marriage. True consent, not forced consent which many of the girls are forced into these marriages. Muslims migrate to the West for many reasons wow are you ever ignorant or what? And it keeps flowing... I am an ARAB smart one. I have family in Lebanon, some in Palestine and extended family in Egypt. I know more about whats going in my homeland than you do. I see it's hard for you understand this. The Arab Spring is about removing dictators and briging peace and freedom to the people. There is only one Islam so I don't know where that is comig from. But the revolutions have nothing to do with the religion and everything to do with people getting fed up with being oppressed for decades... Why do you think there was a "fear" in the West that the dictators would be replaced with Sharia and Islamic governments? Are you not a man? Do you realize what Muslims do when we pray? i suggest you find out before making comments like that. Anyway, you have done a fanstastic job proving you are absolutely clueless about not only Islam, but the culture and traditions of Islam and the Middle East in general. Way to be ignorant and arrogant... Salam
You said it yourself you don't read or trust media, so what do you trust and how do you get your current events?How do you know that there was an uprising in Libya or Egypt are you saying that the green revolution in Iran were all false reporting, that Syrian military are not shooting demonstrators? The only thing you want to read and hear is how Israel is expanding settlement or NATO-US troops killed in Iraq or Afghanistan but you will deny that Taliban are attacking women, Taliban are denying education to women, or that child marriages exist in many Muslim communities. Muslims have claim child marriages are part of Islam at the same time some Muslims claim they are not and if they are not have Muslim leaders been conducting proper education to educate that it is not or punish those who enter into such union, no. Good for you if you are a smart Arab then you should realise and be aware of the discrimination and oppression against none Muslims and women in those Muslim lands or that Westerners especially Americans are not safe to wonder around those areas unescorted. Not about religion you said, Libyan leaders just proclaim that they will implement sharia law, you said why the West are concern with sharia and Islamic governments just look at Iran, Saudi Arabia, Somalia and the Taliban that should give you your answer. You said Muslim man will get distracted when Muslim women pray with them, distracted from what women are already fully cover up? Do they get distracted when they eat together? Or are Muslim so immature that all they think is sex. Then segregation is not part of Islam then, then why make it part of Islam???? There are a very few Mosque only in North America that practice real Islam were women and men can pray together. On the contrary, I have presented factual facts, that are not from me but from scholars and other intellectual Muslims who have spoke against "corruption" of Islam with the incorporation of many none Islamic practices and yet in spite of over whelming evidences you chose to turn a blind eye, you chose to be part of that majority of Muslims that refuse to accept the truth and live a life of denial. That is why immediately after the new Libyan government decalre their law will be sharia they clarify to the world that it will be a sharia different from the Taliban it will be a sharia that respect true freedom, justice and democracy that is very similar to Western secular laws.
Now you're being stubborn. Media outlets like FOX News aren't the only things out there, and I find non-American media to be more reliable than American media. Of all the West, you have some of the worst media news outlets for bias I have ever seen... And again you continue putting more words in my mouth... When did I ever say the Taliban don't do that? When did I even say I support the Taliban? You're jumping from new topics all the time... And some Christians think only white-skinned people can be Christians. So does that mean every Priest and the Pope failed to educate those Christians. You're being extremely foolish... Or are they correct and only white-skinned people can be Christians? And why wouldn't American's be safe in Afghanistan or Iraq for example? Is it because of Islam? The Quran? Or the people? And there is plenty of minority persecution in the United States, so take a look in your own backyard before criticizing mine. If they want Sharia Law, they are free to use Sharia Law in Libya. No, it wasn't about religion it was about freedom and the Libyans will decide what they want on their own without a dictator. Like I said, LEARN how we pray and why we pray separately. I know you don't like learning about other cultures, but it's starting to show in your posts. And then you want to tell ME what real Islam is? That's priceless... A person who has never picked up a Quran in his life knows the real Islam. The Taliban are a fundamentalist group. They have extreme views of everything, of course the Libyans don't want that... Who would? Nobody. The Sharia in Libya will be Sharia. The fundementalism in Afghanistan is their own little ideology. Find out what Sharia Law is and then look at the Talibans policies. Tell me where the similarities are. Salam
To make the long story short, Mohammed did not forgave the poor Jewish girl for assasinating her with poison instead she was executed on the other hand Jesus Christ (PBUH) not only did he stop HIS followers from defending Him or fighting back, Jesus (PBUH) forgave all His persecutors and executioners the Romans, the Jews, the Pharasees everyone. Islam is so corrupted that every Islamci sect claim to be the real Islam and each has their own sharia interpretation, you have your own sharia interpretation, Taliban, Pakistan, Sufis, Druze, Wahabis etc. etc. all have different interpretation the bottom line is the intellectual Muslims are saying that women are equal to men, child marriages are not part of Islam, burqa is not part of Islam, suicide killing is not part of Islam, freedom of religion is part of Islam, Islam recognize science and education.... [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAPKYKhTp8U&feature=channel_video_title"]Arab Intellectual - Muslim Failure - YouTube[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTlCUqjMtbA&feature=channel_video_title"]Dr. Jasser joined Gretchen Carlson of Fox and Friends to discuss the Muslim arrests in NJ - YouTube[/ame] If Libyan wants sharia that is their choice but if they are going to enforce a sharia law that is going to be worse than Gadafi's law then freedom loving Libyans will not accept it and the world will not tolerate it.
