Israel comes under heavy rocket fire from Gaza, suspected terror infiltration

Four Hajj delegations leave besieged Gaza to Mecca
Thousands of pilgrims left from the Rafah crossing to Cairo’s airport and then to Mecca, Saudi Arabia.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/6/17/four-hajj-delegations-leave-besieged-gaza-to-mecca

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023...from-sudan-to-gaza?traffic_source=KeepReading

https://www.newarab.com/analysis/why-are-palestinians-fleeing-gaza-and-heading-turkey

https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2022/01/palestinian-turkish-ethnic-mixture-persists-over-times

Can people leave Gaza? Obviously. Where do they go? That depends on who is willing to receive them, and of course they have to get permits from Hamas or the PA. They need permits from Israel only if they want to come to Israel.

 

You're right. Hamas threw the Geneva Conventions out the window on Saturday.

 

thats actually a very pertinent comment. thumbs up. a topic in and of itself.

 

like anybody follows that nonesense anyway lol. its only used to handicap your opponent while you go on evading the prosecutors.

 

Gaza and The West Bank are in "Israel". The question I posed was "Can Gazan people leave Gaza and go and live in the West Bank?" Perhaps they can use that lovely airport you claimed they had

 

We don't know what the Hamas have in store for Israel, and it isn't good. Taking hostages and threatening and/or promising to kill them could put them in control to what they want and they mean it. How Israel deals with it is another matter. Hamas will pay a big price for all of this in the end.

 

Well, have they been?

 

Can't see the video. The site is asking to install cookies on my computer. I don't want the cookies.

 

I agree with all of that.

Not necessarily. The most audacious people often cut the sweetest deal because they hold most of the cards ... or as you say, are "in control".

 

So in order to leave Gaza...they need permission from Hamas? Or PA? Interesting. I didn't know that.

 

Gaza and what is mistakenly called the West Bank are not in Israel.

I don't know if Gazans can leave Gaza and go live in the West Bank. I suppose they can, in certain circumstances. Marriage, for instance.

 

You have failed to establish whether this "hatred" is toward the Jews, the Israelis, or the Zionists. It may be so that the average Palestinian doesn't understand the difference but that is a question that is still unanswered. Personally, I don't think they hate Jews or Israelis. But Zionists? Oh yeah!

That is certainly not true.

For Americans almost definitely but the others ..... ? I'm not convinced.

 

Yes. Both governments are dictatorial.

 

hopefully hamas can negiotiate the release of the hundreds of palestinian women and children that the israelis have as hostages.

 

The answer is no

 

​

Today, Le Figaro has published an article about reaction of French politicians to Hamas attack on Israel.

The author of the article writes that some left-wing parties refused to condemn this attack by Hamas militants, which had resulted in the death of hundreds of civilians.

At the same time, Jean-Luc Mélenchon and several his supporters including Manuel Bompard and Louis Boyard refused to call the attack a terrorist one; and the far-left parties have gone even further. This is particularly true for the Party of Indigenous people, led by Houria Bouteldja and Youssef Boussoumah who devote most of their speeches to condemning France's colonial history, as well as to supporting the Palestinian cause and denouncing Israeli policies. The Party of Indigenous people has called Hamas "our militant brotherhood".

 

You mean like the American's illegal invasion of Irak, Serbia, Panama, Yemen, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Libya, Grenada, etc.?

 

Ouf!

 

I think they need to milk it though. No quickie. Make the Zionists sweat and be willing to offer a series of concessions & guarantees. A proper bare-bottomed public spanking would be in order too.

 

And a good thing....or Israel would be in even more danger

 

In other words, Gaza is a prison

 

lol. saw some israeli "american" on tv today, a relative of one of the hostages, ordering biden to send in the troops to protect usa citizens. lets hope that when and if they are saved they are taken back to safety in america, otheriwse, whats the point in using the "usa card"?

 

Evidently not. Weapons seem to move in easy enough. There is a border with Egypt. Apparently Gazens can leave after they get permission from Hamas or PA. You might call THEM the prison guards.

If Israel allowed passage over its territory to allow travel from Gaza and West Bank...even more Israelis would be dead. I care about Israel's security. You don't. And Hamas is not attacking Israel because they view Gaza as a "prison". They want to erase Israel and the Jews...and have stated that objective.

 

I think the Americans ought to be left to sweat even longer. Maybe then they won't be so eager to put their boots on the ground in Donbas.

 

Now that it has been established that the people of Gaza are actually free to travel anywhere they wish except to Israel, and after all the discussion about how atrocities committed by some Hamas militants in the course of their operation justifies leveling Gaza to the ground, displacing hundreds of thousands of its residents, and killing and maiming so many children and women, can I ask this question that I haven't seen tackled:

How is it that the Israelis have managed to (collaterally of course) kill so many children, journalists and more, in bombing Gaza, but don't seem to be able to make much of a dent on Hamas' ability to launch rockets against Israel? As I mentioned the other day, those rockets will be depleted one day but so far Hamas has been able to fire them off at quite an impressive rate despite all the bombing. (As I have stated previously, Israeli propaganda and urban myth notwithstanding, it does not appear to me that Hamas would want to store its rockets in residential buildings and those who operate it probably find bunkers and tunnels safer than sitting in residential building that are being bombed).

p.s.
From my vantage point, Hamas will have won if after this conflict is over, it achieves the same level of deterrence against arbitrary Israeli attacks against Gaza as Hezbollah achieved against similar attacks and violations against Lebanon as result of the 2006 war. Conversely, if Israel is able to act with even greater imugnity and even less regard to the rights of the Palestinians in Gaza after this war is over, then Hamas will have lost. And whether Hamas will end up winning or losing IMO will ultimately depend on how far Hezbollah and its other allies (including Iran) allow Israel and its allies to pound Gaza into oblivion without raising the stakes.