It begins

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Reality, Jul 7, 2022.

  1. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    https://www.yahoo.com/news/supreme-court-gun-ruling-cited-154602588.html

    Here comes the first test case down the pipe vs the NFA citing the Spear of Bruen.

    Briefly, they quote the committee which came up with and passed the law and how they bloviated excessively about how new fangled and fancy and brilliant they were to come up with this idea that had no parallel. Petitioner points out that since it had no historic parallel and they say that in their own words, the NFA cannot possibly pass the Spear test.

    An interesting case to watch
     
  2. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed.
    Democrats have not pushed for 'assault weapons' to fall under the NFA ad they do not want to open the NFA to scrutiny.
    Now they may not be able to avoid it.
     
  3. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Its worth noting that marijuana was effectively banned by the same bureaucratic catch-22 regulatory fiat as machine guns, and within about a year of eachother. It stands to reason if one can be found to have been illegitimate (which it is) then it should be pretty simple precedent for the other as well.
     
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  4. bobobrazil

    bobobrazil Well-Known Member

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    at the time of writing having a weapon was considered a common ordinary tool for survival...they feared an army would NOT be supported or funded by the small federal government they envisioned, hence the inclusion of the words regulated militia, the purpose and meaning of the amendment is overlooked by the second amendment nuts and those words regulated and militia are important
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2022
  5. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    “Well-regulated” modifies “militia”. The Constitution grants powers to government. The Bill of Rights restricts the powers of government.
    The militia is "well regulated" in 10 USC 246 under the powers granted to Congress in Article 1, Section 8, Clause 16.
    U.S. Code § 246.Militia: composition and classes
    (a)The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
    (b)The classes of the militia are—
    (1)the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
    (2)the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
    The Second Amendment can only limit the power of government, not expand it. That limitation was expressed in the clause "the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".
    Nothing in the Bill of Rights limits the rights of the people.
     
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  6. bobobrazil

    bobobrazil Well-Known Member

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    at the time of writing gun ownership was considered as "natural" especially in the wilderness and therfore not needing to have a right, all the rights are not included when they were considered as natural rights and this is important on other issues as well, the inclusion had more to do with national defense than personal defense
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2022
  7. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    Pennsylvania: 1776: That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state; and as standing armies in the time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; And that the military should be kept under strict subordination, to, and governed by, the civil power. Declaration of Rights, cl. XIII.
    Vermont: That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State -- and as standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; and that the military should be kept under strict subordination to and governed by the civil power. Ch. I, art. 16 (enacted 1777, ch. I, art. 15).
    Kentucky: 1792: "That the right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned." Art. XII, § 23.
    Ohio: 1802: "That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State; and as standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, they shall not be kept up, and that the military shall be kept under strict subordination to the civil power." Art. VIII, § 20.
    Indiana: 1816: That the people have a right to bear arms for the defense of themselves and the State, and that the military shall be kept in strict subordination to the civil power. Art. I, § 20.
    Mississippi: 1817: "Every citizen has a right to bear arms, in defence of himself and the State." Art. I, § 23.
    Connecticut: Every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state. Art. I, § 15 (enacted 1818, art. I, § 17).
    Missouri: 1820: "That the people have the right peaceably to assemble for their common good, and to apply to those vested with the powers of government for redress of grievances by petition or remonstrance; and that their right to bear arms in defence of themselves and of the State cannot be questioned." Art. XIII, § 3.
    The constitutions and courts of the various states indicated an individual rights viewpoint at least 66 times..
     
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  8. bobobrazil

    bobobrazil Well-Known Member

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    notice all these opinions are very, very old and do not consider atomic weaponry or modern day weapons at all
     
  9. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    If you'd looked at the link you would see that the latest state constitutional affirmation of an individual right was around 2014.

    The Second Amendment protects all bearable arms in common use for lawful purposes. Nukes don't fit that definition.
     
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  10. bobobrazil

    bobobrazil Well-Known Member

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    what link?
     
  11. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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  12. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    Using the exact same technique, something they even speak to at that committee hearing a few minutes prior to the point we're talking about in the case.

    Harrison Narcotics act, like the NFA but for cocaine.

    The difference being that there is no enumerated right to keep and bear cocaine.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2022
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  13. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    and how does that support your anti gun statements in prior posts?
     
  14. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    You got it backwards. They believed that because a standing army WOULD exist, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shouldn't be infringed.
     
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  15. bobobrazil

    bobobrazil Well-Known Member

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    it doesnt, it refers to the fact not everything is listed within our founding documents
     
  16. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    The 2nd Amendment has everything to do with self defense.
     
  17. bobobrazil

    bobobrazil Well-Known Member

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    no actually i dont, they could hardly pay for an army, AND they wanted envisioned a small federal government, it was preferred to rely on the locals for defense
     
  18. bobobrazil

    bobobrazil Well-Known Member

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    that is a natural right and does not need to be "in a law"
     
  19. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    that has much historical foundation. They wanted a counterbalance to an armed government
     
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  20. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    whatever the reason-the clear intent was to reiterate that the federal government-which was never ever delegated any PROPER power to restrict what arms the private citizens could own-had not the power to infringe upon this right
     
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  21. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    It does need to be documented in the Constitution, to be legally protected.
     
  22. Wild Bill Kelsoe

    Wild Bill Kelsoe Well-Known Member

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    , Yes you do...

    Article I, Section 8, Clause 12:

    [The Congress shall have Power . . . ] To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
     
  23. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    We've had a standing Army since before the Constitution was ratified.
     
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