Italy's Covid19 woes has nothing to do with single-payer

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by nopartisanbull, Apr 1, 2020.

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  1. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    During Biden/Sanders debate, anti single-payer Biden made the following statement;

    "Well, look at what's happening in Italy"

    Biden's statement was just a political cheapshot as he knows Italy's Covid19 woes has nothing to do with single-payer.

    First, according to John Hopkins' 2019 bio/pandemic assessment/report;

    Although U.S., Taiwan, Australia, Canada obtained the highest scores,

    "…..the national health security is fundamentally weak around the world. No country is fully prepared for epidemics or pandemics, and every country has important gaps to address".

    Now, in reference to Italy's Covid19 woes,

    a. Late start at testing
    b. Late start at social distancing
    c. Italy has oldest population
    d. Prior to pandemic, Italy had only 8 ICU beds with ventilators per 100,000, a very low number compared to;

    Single-payer Germany; Over 24 ICU beds/ventilators per 10000
    Single-payer Belgium; Over 22 ICU beds/ventilators per 100,000
    U.S.; Over 20 ICU beds/ventilators per 100,000
    Single-payer Canada; Over 14 ICU beds/ventilators per 100,000

    CONCLUSION;

    Why some countries are struggling more than others?

    a. Late start at testing
    b. Late start at social distancing
    c. Late start at closing borders,
    d. Falling behind the 8 ball on ICU's/ventilators/medical supplies, and
    e. A combination of all of the above
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020
  2. Wildjoker5

    Wildjoker5 Well-Known Member

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    It just wasn't "real" single payer system. So what you are saying is that no type of medical system, single payer/private healthcare, would have prevented Italy and Germany and Spain from becoming dumpster fires? Whats important to note is the response after the outbreak and who got things ramped up the fastest. S Korea turned to their free market to square things up. The US has many private businesses stepping up to produce drugs, masks, ventilators, tests etc. These things would have been produced earlier if not for government stifling their response like the CDC stopping companies from making tests.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020
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  3. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Quote: What's important to note is the response after the outbreak and who got things ramped up the fastest.

    But most important; We should have acted BEFORE
     
  4. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Quote: The US has many private businesses stepping up to produce drugs, masks, ventilators, tests etc.

    So as many countries!
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020
  5. Wildjoker5

    Wildjoker5 Well-Known Member

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    True, we should have all situations thought out ahead of time and have a plan for everything we cant imagine...

    Wonder what happened to the 95 million masks that were supposed to be ordered after the 2009 SARS outbreak that Obama never ordered? Or the time period between 2003 to 2019 when the government was warned about the lack of ICU beds incase of a pandemic like this and nothing was done?
     
  6. Wildjoker5

    Wildjoker5 Well-Known Member

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    Right, their private businesses are getting it done.
     
  7. Caligula

    Caligula Well-Known Member

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    The problems in Italy are more not monocausal; unfortunately, it's a range of factors coming into play.
    Giorgio Gori, the mayor of Bergamo, the city that's been hit the hardest, already spoke about mistakes they made on a local level when the spread wasn't even remotely as severe as it's now. Local authorities waited too long and lost precious time. Italy's health care used to be very good in international comparisions until former prime minister Berlusconi started cutting funds roughly one and a half decades ago. Italy has the second oldest population in the world, as is known the virus is considerably more dangerous the older the infected person is. Italian households very often have three or four generations under one roof, something which is rather uncommon in other countries. The average age of those who died in Italy is 79. Btw, Germany hasn't become a dumpster fire at all, Italy and Spain are the countries hit the hardest at the moment.

    A massive problem that I see is that we, the western countries, are too depended on China in terms of production. We outsourced the production of medication, protective gear, medical equipment many years ago. I really hope when this whole thing is over that we will bring some of that back.

    Academic article (Oxford University) regarding the situation in Italy.
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.15.20036293v2.full.pdf+html
     
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  8. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Good points.

    In a previous post, I said; "We should have acted before"

    Well, three entities have acted BEFORE our first confirmed case;

    1. the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations (CEPI), Co-fonder; Bill Gates' Foundation
    2. Moderna Inc., main partner; Bill Gates' Foundation
    3. The National Institutes of Health (NIH), Trump's disease prevention AGENCY

    As of Jan11th, all collaborated to develop Covid's vaccine candidate, and all knew Covid19 was a serious threat.

    https://www.modernatx.com/

    Question: What preventive measures were implemented between Jan 11th to Jan 31st?

    Lesson learned!

    A common saying in the oil and gas industry; If you don't the well is SOUR or SWEET, then presume it is SOUR.

    In other words, if you don't know the R naught of a virous is less than 1 or above 1, then presume it is above 1.

    Lesson learned!
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020
  9. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    No country was prepared to handle a pandemic LIKE Covid19.

    Key word; LIKE
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020
  10. fiddlerdave

    fiddlerdave Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump has had over 3 years to prepare the country for known risks like a pandemic.

    Trumps "unpreparedness" consisted of:
    1. Work on dismantling the pandemic preparedness tha previous administrations had worked on.
    2. Worked on sabotaging health insurance do millions of people to lose healyh insurance which led to
    3. The closure of hundreds of hospitals, especially rural hospitals!

    Its as if the Trump administration came up with a plan to make America UNPREPARED for major health crisis problems. But this is a usual Republicans plan. If we don't have crisis RIGHT NOW, any preparations are wasted and need to be thrown away.

    Except nuclear bombs and exotic weapons systems that often never work woth a damn. Those budgets are unlimited!
     
  11. hawgsalot

    hawgsalot Well-Known Member

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    Oh lookie we have a partisan flame bait post that well is ignorant with no point or facts.
     
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  12. hawgsalot

    hawgsalot Well-Known Member

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    Way to early to make a judgement, if their death rate remains twice of other countries than you have to question their healthcare system, if not all good.
     
  13. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    And if the U.S. Covid Total Deaths remains 320% higher than Canada, then will you question our health care system?

    Hoooops!

    U.S. Covid Total Deaths; 4,383
    Canada Covid Total Deaths; 102

    U.S. Covid Deaths per million; 13
    Canada Covid Deaths per million; 3

    U.S. Total Covid Cases; 205,036
    Canada Total Covid Cases; 9,489
    US/Canada population ratio (10 to 1), thus, 9,489 X 10 = 94,890
    Thus, per capita, U.S. has twice as many cases than Canada, however, per capita, significantly less Canadians are dying, WHY?

    U.S. Total Deaths Linear Scale

    upload_2020-4-1_13-25-37.png
    Canada's Total Deaths (Linear Scale)
    upload_2020-4-1_13-28-6.png
    NOTE: Compared to the U.S., Canada's Total Deaths' linear scale looks like a stairway to heaven, reason(s); UNKNOWN

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020
  14. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Quote: Trump has had over 3 years to prepare the country for known risks like a pandemic

    Also an in-coming CEO's responsibility to make sure all his/her company divisions run effectively/efficiently.

    ONCE AGAIN

    1. U.S. most prepared country to handle a pandemic......John Hopkins 2019 bio/pandemic assessment/report

    2. Although U.S. was most prepared country, John Hopkins' report clearly states;

    a. No country is fully prepared for epidemics or pandemics, and
    b. Every country has serious gaps to address.

    3. Trump; "Ive inherited a broken system, and frankly a terrible system"

    4. Trump; "We were unprepared to handle a pandemic LIKE Covid19".....key word; like

    MY ASSESSMENT; Although U.S. was most prepared to handle a pandemic, we were unprepared to handle a pandemic LIKE Covid19.

    Last; No country was prepared to handle a pandemic LIKE Covid19.
     
  15. nopartisanbull

    nopartisanbull Well-Known Member

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    Switzerland

    Population; 8.6 million

    Total Cases; 17,317
    Total Deaths; 461
    Death per 1M pop; 53, third highest in the world

    Question; Primarily due to Swit's 100% private health care system?

    Answer; Nonsense!
     

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