Labor's Ruddy Quandary

That is entirely my point, How can you, the ALP or anyone else say it will cost more?

How do you take an educated guess when you have nothing of the policy? There pure and simply is not the information to guess. As with the ALP, the only true guess would be, that costs will be far higher than they claim on any policy, due to the fact they cannot manage a program or policy with any satisfactory budget outcome. The NDIS, NBN and the pink bats scheme clearly demonstrate this. Record of Coalition management has been exemplary in comparison.

As you can see from TV's post he held as bible.

From TV

Then they go on to explain how they calculated and justify their statement. However, due to the fact they have no substance to model or even consider the entire article is a guess by a bias institute who has a vested interest to swing toward the government. It should be determined on the policy and not simple guessing what the policy is. So I would suggest that debating the policy's cost and discounting such policy is simply stupid until the policy is given. I do also consider that if policy is not forthcoming before the election, then it would be fair enough to consider it was not an election promise or a policy that should be introduced before people have a chance to view the policy in its entirety.

 

How can the Coalition claim it will cost less? What is your point? That no one knows anything?

What do you mean "nothing of the policy"? Here is the policy: http://www.greghunt.com.au/Portals/0/PDF/TheCoalitionsDirectActionPlanPolicy2010.pdf

So.. " the only true guess would be, that costs will be far higher than they claim", yes?

"Record of Coalition management has been exemplary in comparison", this is just straight up opinion.

What is your point? The Coalition don't know how much their policy will cost, and neither does anyone else, but we can "trust" the Coalition where as we can't "trust" the ALP, is that about it?

 

My point is that you and others proclaim this policy will cost more than the ETS or even the carbon tax. Yet you ignore the fact that in no way do you know the policy. You proclaim the ETS is the cheapest and best to achieve a result over any other policy that you actually know little about.

Here we have commitment to a policy. here we have intent of a policy and here we have aims of a policy. What is the policy? how is to be funded?

Way to go, misquote the words so you can misrepresent the forum. Can't you do better than that? Oh, probably not seeing as how you cannot refute the basic point of the comment... The ALP mismanage everything forcing the costs to be far greater than they need to be.

figures of the waste and deaths of workers, say different.

LOL... No the point is that you attempt to say that their policy is too costly and yet you don't know the cost. You say you can guess but it is obvious by your previous attempt to mislead the forum that you clearly have little understanding of such and would prefer to spread the lie of the ignorant to substantiate your proposed cost measure as best alternative.

 

What a load of crap Garry! You've gotta stop listening to phony!

The pink batts is the only program that hit some sort of significant snag! It did fulfill effectively it's energy aims!

The coalition have never managed anything of significance......wait up, they've kept the boats reaching aussie soil.....lol! Desperate speculation is all phony and cronies have focused on and Fudd is exposing the absolute nonsense that you blissfully support as a rusted on conservative!

 

I'm not sure slippery, I think it would be a big mistake to go too early now, the longer he holds on the more chance he has of exposing abbott and his lack of policy and blatant fear mongering! The coalitions policies on addressing emissions, NBN and asylum seekers are leaving them exposed at this stage!

I think the time is right for Turnbull! This guy has stood by his values from the outset and would certainly blow a hole in Rudds campaign! Leaders have a huge influence on party policy and this guy has stood by his values, which suggests he will be a lot more honest and focused than most politicians! Phony represents extreme right wing policy! Why have Phony or Fudd when we can have Turnbull.....Now!!!

 

Problem is TV, Turnbull is a traditional Liberal among a team dominated by pure conservatives. He wont get his chance just yet.

 

Garry, from all angles the coalitions direct action plan is one monstrous lemon! It's funny how everyone else is able to roughly cost the scheme but the coalition themselves! Remember phony initially wanted an actual "carbon tax", but prior to this he supported an ETS! Now he wants to introduce an alternate policy for the sake of being negative and attempting to get one up on the government but won't put out clear costings......because he knows the figures are atrocious!!!!! There is an extremely high probability that their "direct action plan" would not be implemented "if elected" in the impending election!

A vast majority of economists say Tony Abbott's climate plans aren't sound economic policy.
Almost 85 per cent said they did not think the Coalition's alternative "direct action'' plan was a sound economic proposal to reduce carbon emissions.
http://m.smh.com.au/business/economists-slam-abbotts-carbon-plans-20110713-1hd3d.html

 

He only lost the leadership spill by 1 vote slippery!

 

Yeah I'm done with this garry. You reject Coalition's costing of their own policy, reject that they even have a policy, reject treasuries costing for their policy, reject Garnaut's reports on direct action, and just say that anything the Coalition does will be cheaper and more competent than anything the ALP does.

And no I don't think the Coalition's policy is "too costly", I don't think they will spend any more money than they've said they will spend, but I also think that they simply won't meet the 2020 emissions reductions targets, and that frankly Tony Abbott doesn't care about those targets because he's a "skeptic".

And I didn't "misquote" you garry, those were your exact words, but did you mean that it only applies to the ALP and not the Coalition? Why am I not surprised...

 

What? You forget the blow out of the NBN budget from 20billion odd to 50billion? Oh that's right you don't want to recall that one... What about the NDIS unfunded budget promise that now has .5% increase on the Medicare levee? Yeah real great management there. So far they have continued to demonstrate their total inept ability to manage policy. While good intention is one thing, management is also needed.

Actually that speculation would be yours. You speculate that all about have forgotten the mismanagement of the ALP just because you consider the policy good.

 

This would be untrue. I do not deny their policy as I point out they have not released detail So any costing of their policy is simple guess work. The Coalitions costing? So far I have only seen some spending intent, not costing. And no I do not now if it will be cheaper. As for treasury, I think you might be grasping here as the ALP is constantly berating the Coalition will not provide policy to them for costing.

BUT to say it will be more expensive because people with vested interest say it will is quite frankly (not to imitate TV) disingenuous

That might be True, but simply disputing policy because he is sceptic is simply stupid without closer scrutiny to assess the validity of such policy. As for meeting the 2020 emissions targets, it is by treasury modelling that neither will the ALP policy. In fact no policy presented will reduce emissions to the target, as you are well aware that current policy is suggested to reduce CO2 emissions by 160Thousand tonnes when in fact treasury modelling demonstrates an increase of 165 thousand tonnes. So no policy would meet that your requirement of policy. All is only achieved by abatement. Again this is not true reduction meaning failure of policy. But to you that might be splitting hairs.

Yes you did, you deliberately cut the short the statement to attempt to misconstrue the statement to mean something different. As the statement was levelled at both sides you are again attempting to draw point at something you presume to mislead the forum with.

 

Come on Garry, you say your not a newspaper or TV junky, well how else would you get the information of a supposed NBN budget blowout! We all get information from some news article and then have the nous to investigate official statements and evidence, not some retarded remark from phony and cronies! Turnbull himself comes across as awfully uncomfortable with the whole NBN issue, he is just towing party lines but no doubt feels a huge element of embarrassment!


NBN Co has rebutted Coalition claims that the cost of Labor's National Broadband Network will blow out to $94 billion and be delayed by five years.
Speaking to a parliamentary Joint Committee on the National Broadband Network, NBN Co chief Mike Quigley said that despite recently being hit by rollout delays, the massive infrastructure project remained on track to be completed by 2021 and within the $37.4 billion capital expenditure allotted to the project.
http://m.theaustralian.com.au/austr...4bn-cost-blowout/story-fn4htb9o-1226624433543

As for any taxes, labor still remain significantly lower than the Howard government. You all just carry on because phony makes one of his dishonest and deceptive remarks and you fall for it! The NDIS scheme is not seen as a big issue by most Aussies, just those that want to try and win political points!

Just on Howard program's, we are still waiting to hear if any "significant" nation building plans he developed and/or implemented......the only one is the GST! And I'm not sure it could be classified as nation building! They managed nothing of significance, that's why there is this delusion that they are good mangers, or part of the reason anyway!

 

Actually I got that from parliament, it is your assumption that it came from the same news as you. So you do not dispute that the NBN cost has blown out? So what is your complaint of that statement... The truth of it?

Isn’t that funny, you provide a quote that in no way makes a difference to my statement. Of course, as you posted it, do you understand that 37.4billion capital expenditure is not the entire cost of the NBN, Don’t you? LOL

I would suggest you go back and read the comment and instead of projecting your own belief maybe you should examine the Hansard of parliament to see the ALP increase borrowing to cover the 50billion cost of the NBN. You will also find the original funding promise of 20Billion, which the coalition stated would not be enough.

But just a side note here, The NBN has been funded under the current restraints which is obviously not accounting for increases costs over the period of 8 years. So further blow out will obviously expected with an excuse of increase costs of manufacturing.

LOL... in case you did not know, Howard retired... Or do you think he might make a leadership challenge as soon as Abbott wins the election?

So, you do not refute the statement of increase in Medicare levee to fund a policy the ALP made completely unfunded? You simply want to claim it is dishonest and deceptive to state it? Fact is both of these policies clearly demonstrate the management of the ALP and if this was the private sector none of these clowns would have a job. The NDIS scheme is seen as a big issue by many Australians, otherwise the ALP would have continued to ignore calls for a scheme as this. After all they have for years, why is it they obviously rushed to budget with an unfunded budgetary promise to introduce it. As you are attempting deception of the policy to assume that because it is a good policy the ALP must be great at management. Both are completely different things.

Oh I am sorry, did you see the Gillard opening the final section of the duplication of the Hume Highway? Great ALP national building program that one wasn't it? Oh that is right after six years of construction, this must have meant the ALP implemented the policy during the term in opposition... LOL Maybe the Burrinjuck dam replacement... You know that dam that feeds the Murrumbidgee? Yep that one was great nation building plan by Rudd. Must have been the fastest build in the world. A complete dam in one month of government, I was bewildered at the speed of that one...

Stop pretending that Howard did absolutely nothing, you are well aware his government did many things. BUT as with many protagonists I do also consider he did squander the opportunity to a degree as there could have been more.

Unlike you I do not pretend to dislike a government because somebody told me too. I dislike a government due to what they do and the policy they introduce and manage. So far the ALP has shown their normal inability to manage and their tendency to increase bureaucracy to support the increased welfare. I would have thought that moving the Australian population away from welfare dependence would be a major priority, but your clear demonstration of celebrity politics makes it clear that Australians do not have the foresight to realise that the position these politicians push them toward is untenable as money is finite.

 

Please, obviously as the party is working through the policy the price will be in progress! The reality is that the governments FTTP is much more cost effective than the coalitions FTTN. The coalitions plan will require massive funds to maintain the copper system! It's a no brainer Garry! Again abbott has simply developed an alternative policy just for the sake of opposition and reason to be negative! Surely, I mean surely Garry your not being serious about this! If Abbott supported a few of these policies he might have some credibility, but to date he has zilch!

Re: Howard: Its funny how the opposition and yourself use the Howard government as a measure of coalition "supposed" success! Yet, when exposing negative facts about this same government, extreme righties start squirming and asking why we need to bring Howard into the debate!

Re: Howard Nation building projects: "Significant" development plans for the nation! Not some little project in a particular corner of the nation! Howard did nothing garry! He had 10 years and a "massive economic boom" behind him! He did nothing of significance!

The labor government have been "fantastic" managers by all "expert reports"! The only reports that are negative are phony abbotts and those that listen to him like you!

 

So the management is not the point you want to complain about, it is the difference in policy. So obviously you assume that your opinion of what policy is better is the important point of how it is managed?

LOL... I did not use Howard that was your claim... But to blatantly show the stupidity of your statement... Medicare levee from 1.5% to 2%. Now if you did not know, that is higher. So your statement “As for any taxes, labor still remain significantly lower than the Howard government." So the lie is demonstrated, if you want to use Howard as the measure... LOL stupidity personified.

Does somebody need to demonstrate the stupidity of your claim for you to understand that it is a complete stupidity?

So the duplication of national roads is not a significant development? And I assume that water management for the east coast's most significant irrigation areas is also some little project in a particular corner of the nation.

Perhaps if Gillard announce the funding of plans to make the rural sector more viable on the Australian development, that is significant but when a Coalition actually does something to develop the farming sector of Australia that is some little project in the corner of the nation. And you proclaim to know what infrastructure actually is. The truth is you cannot understand the difference with paying people to make plans (which produce nothing) to actually building things which you like to belittle because you cannot refute.

... By all reports?… but those that are not for the ALP are BS... LOL


Where is the nah, nah, nah and the

 

Right bright spark, I was not talking about the Medicare Levi alone! Comprehension is obviously a gift! I was referring to overall taxes! Howard massively taxed people by labor comparisons "And" I must add, did "nothing"! The australian tax payers were out of pocket by tens of billions for "what"!

They're projects that pale into insignificance! This is like managing a corner store as opposed to supermarket franchise! Get real Garry! The coalition obviously lacked the capacity of vision and implementation!

That's right Garry, you've got to read reports "not" newspaper headlines that start with: " Tony Abbott said"! Or was it question time and subsequently Hansard you heard or read your information! Lol!!!

Your blubbering drivel regarding climate change schemes are an example of how right leaning you are and your rusted on or soldered on( in the words of Diurectic) attachment to the coalition! It's not about policies but about your beloved coalition!!!

 

So now it is exposed that you got it wrong, you were not talking about this nor that... BUT YOU DID SAY "As for any taxes, labor still remain significantly lower than the Howard government" So it is apparently only those you think are supportive to your stupidity?

To what? are you suggesting school halls program is great example of great management? Perhaps something of great nation building significance could be your next major point of interest... LOL

apparently the reports are all BS unless they of for the ALP. Perhaps if you knew what the Hansard is and the fact that these reports are simply somebody else's subjective opinion of what the Government are doing. Perhaps your reports are not as direct as seeing for ones self.

What an eloquent way of saying nothing... LOL

Poor person, slave to the media you tout as bias and shallow yet unable to find any other understanding of what your talking about, other than being told...

 

It all just simply goes over your head! If you want to converse you've got to work on comprehension Garry rather than just become hysterical!

 

Of course I have to laugh hysterically, the stupidity of your comments betray you...

So you have nothing of substance and all the reports that do not support the ALP are all BS ... Your comment not mine.

 

This is what I call back peddling!

 

Yes because you have nothing else but obtuse attempt at subterfuge...

 

Nope, because your grasp on complex topics leaves a lot to be desire, due to obvious comprehension deficiencies!

 

Tv, have you not realised that Garry nailed your arse to the wall?
Mate, he shot you full of more holes than five square kilometers of shade cloth.

 

What complex issue is that... your phobia of Abbott? Maybe your idea of what you consider a great measure for your ALP? Still maybe it is just that anything you consider to be against your ALP is BS or bias...

Maybe if you had any idea how stupid it is to pretend to know the difference between policies and management you could discuss complex topics... but due to the your idea of what is complex

All such complex topics, that obviously went well above your station with your limited edification...

 

Unfortunately when you have to wait for the handlers, sometimes they are busy telling other drones what to say...

I note that Rudd is trying the old negative blame game, as you see that the current drones proclaim the same. Seems they all got the memo on how to proceed, so do not expect any substance for a while. The memo of supposed substance is in the ALP outbox along with their proposed party policy changes, might be a bit late coming...