Latter Day Saints, The Mormons, my analysis so far!

DennisTate · Jun 30, 2018

I have been reading the following book for the past week or so and
I have to admit that the wisdom contained therein has exceeded my
expectations.

I have heard Christians from other denominations teach that Mormons,
are not Christians, but I am certain that a significantly higher percentage of
Latter Day Saints are led quite powerfully by the Holy Spirit than is the case
in most Christian denominations.

Romans 8:9

"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

Gospel Principles

I was really impressed by what the Latter Day Saints teach about the state of the dead...... and I was so glad to see them giving hope for the dead who died in an unsaved state!

https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-41-the-postmortal-spirit-world?lang=eng

The Postmortal Spirit World
“Chapter 41: The Postmortal Spirit World,” Gospel Principles (2011), 240–44

The spirits are classified according to the purity of their lives and their obedience to the will of the Lord while on earth. The righteous and the wicked are separated (see 1 Nephi 15:28–30), but the spirits may progress as they learn gospel principles and live in accordance with them. The spirits in paradise can teach the spirits in prison (see D&C 138).
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I personally consider that to be an exceptionally accurate and insightful explanation of what happens to us after we die.

DennisTate · Jun 30, 2018

Spirit Prison
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The Apostle Peter referred to the postmortal spirit world as a prison, which it is for some (see 1 Peter 3:18–20). In the spirit prison are the spirits of those who have not yet received the gospel of Jesus Christ. These spirits have agency and may be enticed by both good and evil. If they accept the gospel and the ordinances performed for them in the temples, they may leave the spirit prison and dwell in paradise.
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(This is from the same article as in post #1)

One of the advantages that Latter Day Saints have over many Christian denominations is that they tend
to show respect toward modern near death experience accounts. Ms. Betty J. Eadie was not kicked out of
the Mormon church for publishing her book......... my old denomination The Worldwide Church of God.... might
not have been so patient with her for serving G-d to the best of her ability.......
rather than the leadership of the church!

https://www.near-death.com/experiences/notable/betty-eadie.html

Betty Eadie's Near-Death Experience
When Betty Eadie book Embraced by the Light was first published, it quickly became a New York Times bestseller and was the first of many "by the Light" books published about the NDE. Eadie followed up her bestseller with the books, Awakening Heart and The Ripple Effect. Visit her website at www.embracedbythelight.com for more information about her. Betty's NDE testimony is one of the most detailed and most profound testimony ever documented in my opinion. "Embraced" was certainly the most popular and important book about the NDE since Raymond Moody's ground-breaking book "Life After Life" book was published in 1975. The following excerpts are from Betty Eadie's New York Times bestseller, Embraced by the Light, reprinted by permission.

.....
2. Leaving Her Body

Betty Eadie leaves her body through her chest and floats above her bed. Three hooded monk-like beings appear whom she identifies to be her guardian angels. They tell her that they have been with her for "eternities" and that she died prematurely. Concerned about her family that she left behind, she travels in spirit to her home to see them; but she discovers that she cannot be seen by them. Betty then returns to her body where her guardian angels are waiting for her.
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I was also so glad to find out that there is a major church that teaches about the pre-existence of the human spirit or soul.

DennisTate · Jun 30, 2018

Here is another exceptional insight that fits perfectly with what near death experiencers also report being shown.

https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-2-our-heavenly-family?lang=eng

God is not only our Ruler and Creator; He is also our Heavenly Father. All men and women are literally the sons and daughters of God. “Man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of heavenly parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father, prior to coming upon the earth in a temporal [physical] body” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph F. Smith[1998], 335).
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https://www.near-death.com/science/research/pre-existence.html

Pre-Existence and the Near-Death Experience

It is not unusual for near-death experiencers returning from clinical death to report having received information concerning their pre-existence before they were conceived in the world. Some experiencers report of learning how they chose various aspects of their lives to be predestined before they were born. Some of the choices people have reported having chosen before birth include the selection of their birth parents, choosing their mission in life, and even choosing how they will die. This knowledge received by near-death experiencers of the past and future shows how some things in life are predestined while other things are not. It shows how free will and predestination both exist and work hand in hand. It means we choose our destiny in life before our birth into the world to live it. Because reincarnation is a concept found in many cultures and religions, the metaphor of life as a river which we chose before we were our birth, shows up in many of these cultures and religions. There are many aspects to a river which make it an excellent analogy to help us understand where we came from, where we're going, who we are, why we're here, and what life is all about. The following discussion will attempt to do just that.
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DennisTate · Jul 4, 2018

I just watched the first two segments of this series on assisting a friend with suicidal tendencies......
This is exceptionally well done:

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/arti...lund?cid=HP_MO-2-7-2018_dPTH_fCNWS_xLIDyL1-C_

Elder Renlund encourages Latter-day Saints to “reach out in love and caring for those who have suicidal thoughts, who have attempted suicide, who feel marginalized in any way. We need to reach out with love and understanding. And you do that in concert with health care professionals, with ecclesiastical leaders, with friends and family support.”

The Latter-day Saint leader says the “old sectarian notion that suicide is a sin and that someone who commits suicide is banished to hell forever” is “totally false.” He adds that “we know from all the statistics out there that someone in the ward [congregation] is hurting. Someone is having suicidal thoughts in your ward. And as we come together as families, as churches, in a community, we can do better than we’re doing now. … Heavenly Father is pleased when we reach out and help His children. I think He’s profoundly pleased.”
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DennisTate · Jul 5, 2018

I have definitely got to read this soon:
https://signofjonas.blogspot.com/2010/07/jews-and-mormons-similarities-and.html
Jews and Mormons: Similarities and Differences

Introduction
To a large extent, Jewish awareness of Mormonism, however minimal, remains negative, due mainly to Latter-day Saint practices widely regarded as offensive in the Jewish community: Missionary work(or proselytizing) and baptism for the dead (namely, posthumous baptism by proxy of non-Mormons, usually ancestors of someone who is LDS). Most Jews are unlikely to be aware, however, that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has attempted to respect Jewish sensitivities on both these issues, which are, after all, fundamental practices of Mormonism. In an agreement submitted to Israeli authorities when the Jerusalem Center for Near Eastern Studies was opened, the president of the church (President Ezra Taft Benson) and the president of Brigham Young University (Elder Jeffery R. Holland) signed a solemn commitment forbidding Latter-day Saints proselyting in Israel, and threatened any student, member of the faculty, or staff violating that commitment with immediate expulsion from the Jerusalem Center and from the country. Similarly, respecting Jewish sensitivity, especially after the Shoah (holocaust), the church agreed in 1995 to stop the practice of baptism for the dead applied in a wholesale manner to Jews (although reaffirming the right of individual Latter-day Saints to baptize their own direct ancestors).

Therefore, given that Mormonism in not a significant factor in the concerns of most Jews. why do I believe that Jewish-Mormon dialogue is important for both sides? My answer is given on three levels: general, Jewish, and Mormon.
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DennisTate · Jul 5, 2018

In order to answer the poll question you may wish to read:

https://www.lds.org/topics/christians?lang=eng
Are Mormons Christian?

Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints unequivocally affirm themselves to be Christians. They worship God the Eternal Father in the name of Jesus Christ. When asked what the Latter-day Saints believe, Joseph Smith put Christ at the center: “The fundamental principles of our religion is the testimony of the apostles and prophets concerning Jesus Christ, ‘that he died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended up into heaven;’ and all other things are only appendages to these, which pertain to our religion.”1 The modern-day Quorum of the Twelve Apostles reaffirmed that testimony when they proclaimed, “Jesus is the Living Christ, the immortal Son of God. … His way is the path that leads to happiness in this life and eternal life in the world to come.”2 In recent decades, however, some have claimed that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not a Christian church. The most oft-used reasons are the following:

Latter-day Saints do not accept the creeds, confessions, and formulations of post–New Testament Christianity.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not descend through the historical line of traditional Christianity. That is, Latter-day Saints are not Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, or Protestant.

Latter-day Saints do not believe scripture consists of the Holy Bible alone but have an expanded canon of scripture that includes the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price.

Each of these is examined below.

Latter-day Saints Do Not Accept the Creeds of Post–New Testament Christianity
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DennisTate · Jul 6, 2018

This is an exceptionally interesting explanation for Mormonism.....
and their connection with Kabbalistic thought.

https://www.haaretz.com/how-kabbala-shaped-mormon-faith-1.5175120

How Kabbala Shaped Mormon Faith
In his effort to establish 'Zion on American soil,' the founder of Mormonism was deeply influenced by the seminal Jewish mystical work, not to mention the polygamy practiced by the Patriarchs.

Where did Smith derive his inspiration? He was undoubtedly an exceptional person, with a vivid imagination and enormous creativity. But every creative spirit needs raw material. Smith found his in the esoteric literature of his era, which led him to the kabbala.

As a curious teenager, Joseph Smith was able to read a fair share of Western esoteric literature at his neighbor's homes or in different public libraries.

The esoteric literature of the period included the legacy of the Renaissance, Hermetism, the kabbala, Neoplatonism, alchemy, astrology and Magianism.
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....

"You are the light and the life, as God the Father from which man was born," states Hermes, echoing similarities with Mormon theology.

Kabbala for Christians

With respect to the kabbala mentioned here, this wasn't the same Kabbala diligently pored over by the students of the Vilna Gaon or the Lubavitch Rebbe Shneur Zalman of Liadi, founder of Chabad Hasidism, during this time period, but rather the kabbala translated into the vernacular for a Christian readership. In the eyes of the Christians who were interested in it, the kabbala was thought to be the secret Torah that Moses gave to Joshua, and from him to the elders of Israel, and from them to the prophets. But unlike traditional rabbinic Judaism, the Christians believed that the kabbala was also given to the Israelite priests. The inclusion of the ancient Israelite priests was likely due to every story about the Temple in Jerusalem being seen by Christians as having some esoteric and mystical value (this was also true for the Freemasons, another movement that flowered around the same time). The Christian kabbala included different translations of the Hebrew texts into vernacular with additional commentary that presented it as a universal bible that in practice was philosophically Perennialist (meaning, that it stands at the base of all human knowledge).
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....

Quinn demonstrates different links between Smith's prophecies and the book, “Traditions of the Jews," written by the anti-Semite Johann Andreas Eisenmenger that was translated from German into English in the 18thcentury. It appears that this book taught Smith that the Hebrew word for God (elohim) is actually written in plural form, an understanding that aided the development of his anti-monotheistic theology, which explicitly acknowledges a plurality of gods.
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Crownline · Jul 6, 2018

My experience with Mormons is that they are good people that are really into family. If you ever work for a Mormon owned business as a non Mormon, don’t expect your career ladder to have many rungs. The higher, more desirable positions are reserved for Mormon brethren.

DennisTate · Jul 7, 2018

Crownline said: ↑

My experience with Mormons is that they are good people that are really into family. If you ever work for a Mormon owned business as a non Mormon, don’t expect your career ladder to have many rungs. The higher, more desirable positions are reserved for Mormon brethren.
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That would make sense.....
Latter Day Saints have suffered some persecution and thus.....
would tend to have something of an us vs the world attitude.....
so they would feel the need to stick together.

I got interested in the L.D.S. church again about a month or so ago when Mr. Mark Taylor
mentioned in an interview that there was a lot of evidence that the 2012 USA election was
stolen due to widespread voter fraud..........
if that is true......
then in the sight of G-d who knows all things...... Mr. Mitt Romney may have been elected POTUS in 2012.....????

This possibility has great Artistic Value.... but also potential economic value.....
and could be spun off into a whole new way of looking at the USA and even the world economy......

https://askgramps.org/will-priesthood-save-constitution-urban-legend/

There is such a prophecy. In a 1950 General Conference address, President Joseph Fielding Smith quoted Elder Orson Hyde’s recollection of a statement by Joseph Smith. “The time would come that the Constitution and the country would be in danger of an overthrow and said he, if the Constitution be saved at all, it will be by the Elders of this Church. I believe this is about the language as nearly as I can recollect it” (Journal of Discourses 6:150). Other accounts have the Constitution rescued by the body of the Latter-day Saints, not just the elders. D. Michael Stewart has done some good research documenting this prophecy, which can be found published in the June 1976 Ensign (I Have a Question, last question).

The fallout of this prophetic statement has been two-fold: 1) it has led some to give credence to another statement referred to as The White Horse Prophecy, and 2) it has led to all kinds of speculation about presidential candidates rising up in fulfillment of the prophecy.

The White Horse Prophecy is a statement attributed to the Prophet Joseph Smith, but the statement is a muddled mess. In one version, he begins by saying he will prophesy esoterically, like John in Revelation. But he quickly labels his white horse as the saints in the Rocky Mountains. From there, he introduces an unidentified red horse that will assist the white in preserving the Constitution. England (there is no secret horse name for this people) is then brought into play as one of two places that will still be financially stable (the white horse is the other). Finally it ends with standard apocalyptic fare of the collapse of the United States government.
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......
I like this conclusion:

If we really need to find a prophesied rescuer for the Constitution, Latter-day Saints should start by looking in the mirror. The verifiable accounts don’t speak of a white(-horsed) knight who swoops in and restores order. It simple says the saints, or the elders, will rise to the occasion. Similarly, it doesn’t specifically say anything about government offices. If we really want a leader that we can look up to, perhaps we should focus on Elder Dallin H. Oaks. Here’s an Elder who has led the charge to defend religious liberty. He has spoken recently to universities on the subjects of preserving religious liberty and religious freedom. He’s been speaking to colleges about the relationship between religious values and public policy for decades.
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Could a Utah State Dollar save the USA Dollar?

DennisTate said: ↑

Have you seen any of the following films:

1. The Future of Food
2. Food Inc
3. The World According to Monsanto.

If so..... then you know that the USA dollar to some degree is linked to and backed up by a plan to control the world's production of food in such a way that could eventually produce global famine.

"George Soros says that America must give up the dollar and accept world currency."
http://www.examiner.com/article/geo...aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=288381481237582

Back in 1994 I found out that President Lincoln had saved American taxpayers four billion dollars in interest payments and since that time I have been wondering what alternative was available to improve monetary policy that would not scare the investors on Wall Street.

A Utah State Dollar could perhaps be the answer!????!!!
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Should Mr. Mitt Romney cooperate with President Trump?

I think that it is more than merely interesting that a group of gifted
Christians feel that President Trump's role in history fits with Isaiah chapter 45....
and ancient King Cyrus..... .whereas back in 2012... another gifted Christian
stated that Mitt Romney....... was a metaphorical Darius...... who worked with Cyrus
over 2500 years ago.

Edie Reno:

"Back in August I heard in the Spirit taht Romney wasDarius. I reseached Darius a Persian king who worsipped smothered God yet funded the rebuilding of the temple o tHE living God of the Jews and maqde decrees in theiir favor...see Ezra
Also in Daniel, it is Darius the mede whose decree at first sent Daniel th lion's den. Yet he prayed all night thatDaniel live and not die.
When Danieal was delivered he thru the satraps, who'd tricked Darius into the decree.....ytheir children and wives into the den.
I am wkorking o. A crafted prayer from the decree Darius wrote upon Daniels deliverance..will post tomorrow." (Edie Reno, October 16, 2012)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/116616272938/permalink/10151114008777939/
Prophetic Company
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DennisTate · Jul 12, 2018

I have got to get into this again soon:

https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1015&context=jbms

1-31-1993 “Nigh unto Death”: NDE Research and the Book of Mormon Kevin Christensen San Jose State University

This article suggests that contemporary near-death research casts light on several episodes in the Book of Mormon. Alma’s conversion while “nigh unto death” fits a common pattern of experience. Modern researchers have noticed distinctive aftereffects among those who have experienced a near-death experience (NDE). In the Book of Mormon, both Alma and the resurrected Christ demonstrate these aftereffects. Lehi’s dream invites comparison with the otherworld journey literature of many nations. Nephi’s interpretation of Lehi’s dream casts light on the tension between the literal and the symbolic elements of visionary experience. Finally, just as accurate out-of-body observations made by NDErs argued for the reality of their experiences, so the testable aspects of the Book of Mormon give Joseph Smith a significance apart from others who may have experienced similar visions. Title Author(s) Reference ISSN A

Raymond Moody has written that the most prominent of the Western religions to accept the near-death experience (NDE) as a doorway to the spiritual world has been The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.) Craig Lundahl's studies of Mormon NDE accounts from 1838 to 1975 show that they fall into the classic Moody pattern.2 Mormons who have reported and collected NDEs take the accounts almost for granted in the context of the faith. Robert Fillerup and I separately gave talks discussing ways that NDE and consciousness research may illuminate Mormon beginnings. Impressed by Lundahl and Moody, Ian Wilson observes that Mormon teachings of the afterlife are more detailed than normative Christianity and match
rather well the NDE.3 On the other hand, in his fascinating study of children's NDEs, Dr. Melvin Morse claims that "I could find little similarity between Katie's experience [the LDS experiencer who triggered his interest] and any of her religious teachings."4 Morse reports that his investigation of Mormon teachings involved "hours" of conversation with the family and conversation with a devout Mormon at the hospital. He learned that Katie had been taught to believe in an afterlife, that the spirit leaving the body was like a hand leaving a glove, and that death was "like sending someone on a long boat ride."5 Morse emphasizes that no one in Katie's family expressed a belief in spirit guides, guardian angels, or tunnels to heaven. In context, Morse's report serves to distance Katie's experience from potential cultural conditional as part of his thesis that children's NDEs are less culturally polluted than adult NDEs. Unfortunately, despite his obvious affection for Katie and her family, his statement also reflects poorly on the strengths of Latter-day Saint teachings about the afterlife. We might wish belatedly that Morse had considered 1 Nephi 6:4-6, or various modern sources, before coming to his conclusion regarding Mormon teachings about spirit guides and tunnels to heaven. In fairness to both Dr. Morse and his few informants, his remark reflects more the weaknesses of current educational materials than the Mormon spiritual heritage. This study shows how NDE research can illuminate NDE episodes within the Book of Mormon.
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DennisTate · Jul 28, 2018

Crownline said: ↑

My experience with Mormons is that they are good people that are really into family. If you ever work for a Mormon owned business as a non Mormon, don’t expect your career ladder to have many rungs. The higher, more desirable positions are reserved for Mormon brethren.
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I am finding out some interesting information on why the Latter Day Saints take NDE accounts so seriously.

http://www.ldsliving.com/Life-After-Death-6-Insights-into-the-Spirit-World/s/77329
Life After Death: 6 Insights into the Spirit World
byBrent L. Top

and.....

http://www.ldsliving.com/Brigham-Yo...-It-Taught-Him-About-the-Spirit-World/s/81924

Brigham Young's Near-Death Experience and What It Taught Him About the Spirit World

DennisTate · Aug 11, 2018

Sunday21 said:

2 Ne 10:2https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/10.24 (BOM)

2 For behold, the promises which we have obtained are promises unto us according to the flesh; wherefore, as it has been shown unto me that many of our children shall perish in the flesh because of unbelief, nevertheless, God will be merciful unto many; and our children shall be restored, that they may come to that which will give them the true knowledge of their Redeemer.

Do you have an interpretation of this? I have meet lds folk who believe that the children of the covenant will enter the highest kingdom although they knowingly sinned in life, once they repented off their sins. I wonder if this is the scripture on which they based this conclusion. What do you think?

I was looking at the Ridges commentary and it references D&C 49:24 4 But before the great day of the Lord shall come, Jacob shall flourish in the wilderness, and the Lamanites shall blossom as the rose.

The ridges comment suggests that BOM scripture has the commentator looking forward to Laminite descendants becoming converts to the lds faith.

What do you think of this ‘coat tails’ argument that children of the covenant will be given a 2nd chance to repent of sins that they knowingly committed?
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I am one of those rather strange people who will read articles on String Theory or

"Stephen Hawking's Universe".... just for fun?! (Life in Canada with our horrible climate can do terrible things to the human mind)?!

In theory....... near death experiencer Rabbi Alon Anava...... may....... in an example of applied Multiverse Theory... .have actually died and been buried......

as was shown to him during his NDE........... and in that time line....... He may NOT have became the amazing teacher that he is in our time line........

If so.... then in our time line........ Ezekiel chapter 37 has in a major way been fulfilled for Rabbi Alon Anava.........

and perhaps he has a massive "Cyrus|" calling on his life...... and maybe Messiah Yeshua - Jesus is leading him by the right hand.......

much as (I assume) the Ancient of Days the Father and / or the Word / Logos led ancient King Cyrus.... who decreed the rebuilding of the Temple of King Solomon by Ezra, Nehemiah, Zerubbabel, Haggai and others?

The Philosophical implications of Multiverse Theory?

Spooky · Aug 11, 2018

The problems with Mormons is that they preach and believe so much that isn't even in the Bible.

Its like half of it is about how to live and the other half are actually Christian biblical teachings.

Their biggest problem however is their belief in salvation.

While technically they believe that salvation is through Christ they go about it in an entirely unbiblical way. They believe in a covenant between themselves in God (totally unsupported by anything in the Bible) similar to what Jews believe. While Christians believe in a relationship between the person and God (which is supported) and giving your life to God, being born again, the Mormons believe that through your works, by following their religious practices, that you will eventually become sin free.

So that is why I would have to say no, they aren't Christians.

Christians believe that salvation is there for everyone, you simply need to ask Jesus for it.

Mormons believe that you have to earn salvation through your works.

Now if you want to believe that lighting 3 candles, standing on your head, and reciting some obscure prayer not mentioned in the bible, every day at noon, is the way to get into Heaven then so be it.

Myself, I will just talk to God and try to build a relationship with him, ask Him for guidance when I need it and make myself available for him.

Sorry I haven't been baptized but unlike Mormons, I don't think God will deny me Heaven because of that.

DennisTate · Aug 13, 2018

Crownline said: ↑

My experience with Mormons is that they are good people that are really into family. If you ever work for a Mormon owned business as a non Mormon, don’t expect your career ladder to have many rungs. The higher, more desirable positions are reserved for Mormon brethren.
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This is certainly an intriguing article isn't it?

https://mormonhub.com/blog/life/depression-suicide-utah/

What is really going on with Utah’s Suicide Epidemic?

There is something strange going on in Utah. The State finds itself on two different top-ten lists that you may have seen or heard about. According to the latest Gallup poll, Utah is one of the 10 happiest states in the country. This is a greatly reassuring statistic to hear if you happen to live in the Beehive State. However there is another top 10 list Utah places on that is a little more alarming — suicide (heatmap of US).
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According to the Center for Disease Control (CDC), the specific demographic most at risk of suicide nationwide are teenagers. It is the 2nd leading cause of death for anyone between the ages of 10 and 20, the first being accidents. And according to a CDC investigation in Utah, there has been a “141.3% increase in suicides among Utah youth aged 10-17 from 2011 to 2015, compared to an increase of 23.5% nationally (UDOH).” This statistic is beyond alarming.
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I have one very simple idea on this:

http://www.msm-info.com/#Stress

Stress

Many people using MSM have reported feeling better and stronger and capable of increased endurance. During a test with 14 persons using MSM for periods from seven months to over one year, none of them became ill (3). One stress study involved two groups of 25 goldfish, which were removed from a large aquarium and placed in two identical, small aquariums. One group was fed ordinary goldfish food, and the other group received the same food with 2% by weight of MSM added. Movement confinement, temperature changes and marginal oxygenation stressed the fish in both aquariums equally. After five days, only one fish of the MSM group had died, against 11 (almost 50%) of the control group (3).
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DennisTate · Sep 24, 2018

Intriguing.... .Latter Day Saints have a prophecy that they will be involved in the building of the
Ezekiel 40 - 48 temple complex.

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...-dollar-problem.531929/page-2#post-1069652460

On 9/7/2018 at 11:43 PM, Just_A_Guy said:

My understanding is that the mainline LDS position is that the LDS Church will be the ones spearheading the reconstruction of the temple foreseen by Ezekiel. But seeing as how the Church appears to have no immediate plans to bring that to pass, I say the Jews are welcome to try it if they can. .......
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DennisTate · Oct 4, 2018

Crownline said: ↑

My experience with Mormons is that they are good people that are really into family. If you ever work for a Mormon owned business as a non Mormon, don’t expect your career ladder to have many rungs. The higher, more desirable positions are reserved for Mormon brethren.
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I just got sent a link to their Articles of Faith.......
now I know why their discussion forums are more friendly.....
less dogmatic..... and more well informed than most other Christian forums.

LDS really do believe in extending freedom of conscience to others......

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/a-of-f/1?lang=eng

11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
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Paul7 · Oct 6, 2018

Mormonism fits the definition of a cult in that they believe the Bible + something else (Book of Mormon), which contradicts the Bible. The are similar to Gnostics in their watered-down view of the divinity of Jesus.

DennisTate · Oct 9, 2018

Paul7 said: ↑

Mormonism fits the definition of a cult in that they believe the Bible + something else (Book of Mormon), which contradicts the Bible. The are similar to Gnostics in their watered-down view of the divinity of Jesus.
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I personally have termed myself a Gnostic Christian........
and I suspect that my choice in favorite literature would tend to imply that
I am a big fan of Judas Didymus Thomas, (Doubting Thomas)......

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...ination-for-nobel-prize-in-literature.542590/

Your nomination for Nobel Prize in Literature?

DennisTate said: ↑

My recommendation is:
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DennisTate said: ↑

On pages 137 to 170 in this book.....the number one cause of anti-Semitism by Christians over these past eighteen centuries is addressed.........(brilliantly I might add)....... and it could be argued that the author also addresses anti- Semitic activity by Muslims........ over the past twelve centuries.........

Here is a good example of the type of literature that can win the Nobel Prize for Literature:

I admit that I may be biased.... but I do believe that Dr. MacDonald has even Winston beat in this category...... because three to five centuries from now more humans will be aware of what Dr. MacDonald wrote than will be aware of what Winston did.

https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/literature/1953/summary/

The Nobel Prize in Literature 1953 was awarded to Sir Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill "for his mastery of historical and biographical description as well as for brilliant oratory in defending exalted human values."
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WillReadmore · Oct 9, 2018

Spooky said: ↑

The problems with Mormons is that they preach and believe so much that isn't even in the Bible.

Its like half of it is about how to live and the other half are actually Christian biblical teachings.

Their biggest problem however is their belief in salvation.

While technically they believe that salvation is through Christ they go about it in an entirely unbiblical way. They believe in a covenant between themselves in God (totally unsupported by anything in the Bible) similar to what Jews believe. While Christians believe in a relationship between the person and God (which is supported) and giving your life to God, being born again, the Mormons believe that through your works, by following their religious practices, that you will eventually become sin free.

So that is why I would have to say no, they aren't Christians.

Christians believe that salvation is there for everyone, you simply need to ask Jesus for it.

Mormons believe that you have to earn salvation through your works.

Now if you want to believe that lighting 3 candles, standing on your head, and reciting some obscure prayer not mentioned in the bible, every day at noon, is the way to get into Heaven then so be it.

Myself, I will just talk to God and try to build a relationship with him, ask Him for guidance when I need it and make myself available for him.

Sorry I haven't been baptized but unlike Mormons, I don't think God will deny me Heaven because of that.
Click to expand...

I'm really not sure why the heck this "are Mormons Christians" thing is an issue at all.

What different action should some Christian take based on the answer to that question?

Should Christians respect someone they find out is a Jew? Jews not only reject the religion of the new testament, but don't believe in large sections of the old testament!

This whole topic sounds like it's strongly headed in the direction of religious discrimination - something that is in opposition to what America stands for.

DennisTate · Oct 9, 2018

WillReadmore said: ↑

I'm really not sure why the heck this "are Mormons Christians" thing is an issue at all.

What different action should some Christian take based on the answer to that question?

Should Christians respect someone they find out is a Jew? Jews not only reject the religion of the new testament, but don't believe in large sections of the old testament!

This whole topic sounds like it's strongly headed in the direction of religious discrimination - something that is in opposition to what America stands for.
Click to expand...

Or...... it could have been began by somebody who saw Latter day Saints treated in a manner that he thought was very unfair....... on a Christian discussion forum.......
and he might have figured that posters on a secular discussion forum would tend to have a more objective and honest opinion of whether or not Latter day Saints were Christians or not?

You can tell my own answer to the poll by the *:

Are Latter Days Saints, Mormons, Christians?

*
Yes
5 vote(s)
55.6%

No
4 vote(s)
44.4%

Perhaps.... .I will research this further.
0 vote(s)
0.0%

Change Your Vote

WillReadmore · Oct 9, 2018

Paul7 said: ↑

Mormonism fits the definition of a cult in that they believe the Bible + something else (Book of Mormon), which contradicts the Bible. The are similar to Gnostics in their watered-down view of the divinity of Jesus.
Click to expand...

By those terms, Judaism and Islam are cults, too.

The thing is, "cult" is just a pejorative. It gets used to refer to any group that doesn't share your own beliefs.

DennisTate · Oct 9, 2018

WillReadmore said: ↑

By those terms, Judaism and Islam are cults, too.

The thing is, "cult" is just a pejorative. It gets used to refer to any group that doesn't share your own beliefs.
Click to expand...

I wholeheartedly agree with with your statement here...... Well said WillReadmore!

WillReadmore · Oct 9, 2018

DennisTate said: ↑

This is certainly an intriguing article isn't it?

https://mormonhub.com/blog/life/depression-suicide-utah/

What is really going on with Utah’s Suicide Epidemic?

I have one very simple idea on this:

http://www.msm-info.com/#Stress
Click to expand...

One has to be careful with stats like this.

For example, the 15 states with the worst suicide rates are red states (save Colorado).

And, the 10 states with the lowest suicide rates are blue states. Plus, pure blue Washington DC has a lower suicide rate than any state.

Is THAT meaningful?

I would suggest caution before jumping to a religious reason for suicide.

WillReadmore · Oct 9, 2018

Oops: https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/population-health/us-states-ranked-by-suicide-rate.html

DennisTate · Oct 9, 2018

WillReadmore said: ↑

One has to be careful with stats like this.

For example, the 15 states with the worst suicide rates are red states (save Colorado).

And, the 10 states with the lowest suicide rates are blue states. Plus, pure blue Washington DC has a lower suicide rate than any state.

Is THAT meaningful?

I would suggest caution before jumping to a religious reason for suicide.
Click to expand...

Actually........... Red States may tend to have a higher rate of suicide due to
strong religious convictions........... tending to cause people to have expectations of themselves that are somewhat too high...........

Ecclesiastes 7:16 "Be not righteous overmuch, and do not make yourself overwise; why should you destroy yourself?"

Acts 23:12

¶
The next morning a group of Jews[fn] got together and bound themselves with an oath not to eat or drink until they had killed Paul.
There were more than forty of them in the conspiracy.
They went to the leading priests and elders and told them, “We have bound ourselves with an oath to eat nothing until we have killed Paul.

So you and the high council should ask the commander to bring Paul back to the council again. Pretend you want to examine his case more fully. We will kill him on the way.”
Click to expand...

These Jews who so hated Paul........
were forty of the most zealous followers of Rabbinic Judaism living in the province of Judaea at that time but........ their understanding of how to apply Judaism meant........ that Paul was somehow stealing Jewish souls........
and needed to be killed.........
.............

Exaggerated religious convictions can also lead to hatred of self..... that can tend to drive people toward suicide........

Romans 7:18

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20

Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21

¶
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22

For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23

But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24

O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Click to expand...

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Latter Day Saints, The Mormons, my analysis so far!

Are Latter Days Saints, Mormons, Christians?

Yes

No

Perhaps.... .I will research this further.

DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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