LED light output

The spectrum shift also provides twice the visible light per watt. This requires high temp glass (the quartz in quartz halogen), and replacing the vacuum with a halogen gas that allows the tungesten vapor to return to the filiment, extending it's life (regular incandescent bulbs plate the glass resulting in a black film).

 

I understand that T12 fluorescent bulbs (the most common kind) get the incandescent bulb treatment next year as well. Hence the "sales" being held to unload inventory.

Ain't Big Government grand?

 

A typical halogen bulb only puts out 21% more lumens than a typical incandescent bulb, although this can go up to 40% for certain high power types of halogen bulbs.

Well, part of the reason for this (more vissible light per watt) is simply that the human eye is more sensitive to yellow-green light than red light. When the color distribution gets shifted more towards the blue side of the spectrum, a higher ratio of the light is yellow, green, and blue. In other words, the lumen rating is being increased by shifting the light color. For incandescent lights, this is usually a good thing, since normal filaments tend to be a little orange-yellowish and halogen gives a whiter light. But some people prefer the oranger "softer" color of light, and it may also be more desirable for certain places where a "cozy" feel is desired. While halogen filaments are a little more efficient at producing orange-red light, most of their "efficiency" comes from producing more of other colors of light. This is why it is not always really fair to use the lumen ratings when discussing efficiency. The most "efficient" light possible, for example, would produce all green-colored light. Indeed, many manufacturers of fluorescent lights actually "cheat" by incorporating more green phosphor to give the tube a higher lumen rating, but this results in an ugly greenish tinge to the light.

And the "warm white" LED's are deficient in far red frequency light, not because red phosphors do not exist, but because incorporating more of this light would lower the lumen rating because the human eye is not as sensitive to it as orange-red light. But the absence of this far red light decreases the LED's CRI index, certain red colored objects are not illuminated as well, and the color rendering seems more "off". The latest high-CRI technology LED's incorporate a separate red LED chip, because it is more efficient to directly produce this light than to produce it through a phosphor. But this adds complexity and expense. The 10 Watt Phillips L Prize LED light, incorporates this far-red color light, but is currently being sold for 50 US dollars each.



Although the Phillips L prize has a has a better spectrum distribution than normal white LED's, it is still far from perfect:

 

Here are the spectrum distributions for the latest technology of high-CRI LED's:


(click on the picture to expand)


They are the closest things to full spectrum from an LED light currently available, but right now are very very expensive. These are already being used in a few televission studios. We will have to wait to see if the prices eventually drop, and whether these will ever become widely used in offices and schools to replace the unpleasant fluorescent lighting.

The current LED technology and state of commercial development is just not ready to replace incandescent lights in people's homes. I support the government funding research, but a ban on incandescents is just ridiculous, especially at this point in time. If people are all forced to use LED lighting instead of incandescent, the quality of lighting in their homes is going to suffer.

But LED's are not any worse than fluorescent, so maybe the government should focus more of its energy getting workplaces to use LED instead of fluorescent if they want to reduce energy consumption. Although incandescent consumes more energy than fluorescent, the fact still remains that far more energy is consumed powering all the fluorescent lights everywhere than the few incandescents in people's homes.

 

LOL, no, you have no idea what you are talking about.

The first computers used thousands of vacuum tubes, which are simple brute force devices that use a huge amount of power. When tubes were replaced with transistors, computers still used a tremendous amount of power. When tubes were replaced with transistors, memory was cabinet after cabinet filled with tens of thousands of these . On a one-to-one basis, every generation of computer uses less and less power.

Same for telephones. Try powering an old style 1970's type phone on the little tiny battery in your cell phone. Or power a 1990's cell phone with that battery.

The free market drove the development of phones. People wanted a portable phone - so the cell phone was invented.
Then people wanted a smaller cell phone, and one that would run longer - so batteries were improved.

The great improvements in battery technology over the past 20 years are not from "green" energy or govt mandate, its from the cell phone industry. Thats a cell phone industry driven by billions of customers in a free market.

 

If the government wants to fund research aimed at developing new technologies, that is perfectly rational.
But what I disagree with is the government trying to impose efficiency mandates before the technology has caught up. The argument that it will "force private industry to develop the technology" is just ridiculous. I thought these socialist control freaks believed the government can run things better than private industry. So why not have the government develop the technology before creating any new mandates. The government has done this with fuel, and they are doing it with energy efficiency mandates (LED technology is just not fully ready to replace incandescent lighting right now).
http://www.exxonmobilperspectives.c...he-impossible-the-epa-and-cellulosic-ethanol/

 

Apparently there is now a third high efficiency lighting option available: ESL bulbs.
http://www.vu1corporation.com/



The technology is basically the same as the old cathode-ray televission tubes. Right now there is only one version of this new bulb available, a directional 65-Watt equivalent. It is only being sold by one home improvement store chain in the USA at this time. The price is 15 dollars each.

The quality of light from this new bulb is claimed to be better than that from both fluorescent and common white LED's, although still not quite as good as halogen incandescents. Here is the spectrum:


As this is a very new product, I cannot find any information about whether ESL bulbs give off some UV radiation like CFL's do, or whether they would be suitable for certain people with skin sensitivity issues. I also wonder whether or not there might be some slight X-ray radiation, since it is after all the same technology as the old cathode ray televissions. Remember parents warning children not to sit too close to the TV ?

 

More and more stores have been installing LED lighting. Looks like there have already been unexpected problems:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101010234009AAdXNWW

This expensive LED recessed lighting won't exactly be paying for itself if it burns out well before its claimed 14 year lifespan.

http://theladylibertarian.wordpress.com/tag/led-bulbs/

 

I've just bought a Philips 6w (About 40w old bulb) for about US$8.
It's a bit too bright so I'll put this in the living room and change for a smaller one.

 

"40 watt equivalent" means this bulbs will be like a 40 Watt bulb in one direction. There is no way a 6 watt LED bulb is going to put out as much light as a 40 watt incandescent bulb. I know this from personal experience, having tried out several different types of LED bulbs and done comparisons.

Just try doing a comparison yourself: put a 40 Watt incandescent bulb behind a lampshade. Try to read a book under it. Then switch it out with your 6 watt LED bulb. See the problem? There is no way your 6 watt LED bulb will be able to light your room. It does not even put out enough light for a closet. You want to light your living room?! You will need at least 4 of those bulbs, probably more.

Unlike with the old incandescent bulbs, higher wattages of LED bulbs cost proportionately more than lower wattages.

There's a difference between brightness and how much light it actually puts out. LED bulbs tend to appear much "brighter" than the actual ammount of light they give off. This is because the light is coming out of a smaller area, and because LEDs are more directional. Put that LED behind a lampshade and try to read beneath it. You will find it won't be so "bright" anymore.

 

I had to chuckle at that post but I'll bet your physics teacher is either groaning or spinning in his grave. Brightness is how much light it puts out.

As I said, the newest one is too bright so I'll change for a lower power unit.

A "Bulb" means a rounded object, in this case, one that is about the same shape, and gives out light in the same manner the old style bulbs.
Of course the electronics are different and the LED units are far better but they radiate light in about the same way.
I think that's why they call it a bulb.
It is not directional in the manner you describe. I do have one directional LED lamp for use in my desk light but that was bought exactly because it was directional and of very low power.
Horses for courses.



I also have them in my water closets and they easily have enough output but they're both far lower at only 3W.

I don't know what sort of items you're looking at but you clearly have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

This is very much like the one I bought today for about $8



It give out a smooth, flicker free light that is very comfortable to sit under but, I'll repeat, is a little too bright for the bedroom.

 

I've also changed my motorcycle lights for LEDs.
The position lights are far cleaner than the old bulbs are are far brighter but consume less power.
The indicators are next up, then the stop tail. I'm also adding an LED daylight running light that'll be wired before the light switch so it'll be on all the time (when the engine is running).
I'm looking for a dipping unit so I can replace the headlamp as well.

 

Well, for anyone that does not believe me, you are welcome to buy a 6 watt LED and try to light your living room with it.
I switched out a family member's bulb with a 13.5 watt LED, and she loudly complained the lamp was too dim and she couldn't see. And this was a 2700K omnidirectional LED that is supposed to be just like a regular lightbulb.

Many of these LED bulbs only give out light on the front semicircle half of their surface. Or for the omnidirectional ones, only give out light from narrower segments on the bulbs, rather than over a wider sphere like the old bulbs. The same ammount of light coming out from a smaller surface area means more glare, so it can appear "brighter" when looking directly at the bulbs without a shade or cover. I experimented with several LED bulbs, and found that paradoxically many of those that appeared "brighter" then actually were dimmer when put behind a lamp shade. They just appear like they are putting out more light than they actually are because of the increased glare when looking directly at the LED. For most of those LEDs, try comparing them with regular light bulbs and looking at them towards the back sides of the bulb. You will see that the LEDs do not appear so bright when viewed from this angle.

"Bulb" is really not the best description for most of these screw-in LED lights. Just looking at the bottom picture you posted, it is more like a half-bulb than a full bulb. That is probably going to mean it will put out more light in the front than towards the sides. Not really the most ideal for regular lampshades pointing up, especially when working on a desk.

I have tried several Phillips brand LED bulbs, and a few Osram bulbs. I do not know what brand you are talking of, and am just utterly baffled by your claim that a 6 watt LED is too bright for your bedroom.

I actually did notice what seemed to be flicker in most of my LED bulbs, but flicker is often at very high frequencies and only some people actually consciously notice it. It was noticeable enough to me to be a bit annoying. There seemed to be more flicker when I installed the LED into my bathroom ceilling fan, perhaps because of the vibration or power fluctuations. Everyone has their own perceptions, I suppose, but I did not find the yellow LEDs as comfortable to sit under. There was a slight purplish tint to the light that I just found annoying, but I am a little more sensitive to these things than most. If light is just light to you, most people probably won't care.

Just because LEDs work great for motorcycles does not mean they are going to be good for lighting your room. These are two different situations.
LEDs work good on the outside of vehicles because they can be a single pure color, because they put out highly directional light, and because they are not a big drain on the battery.

 

I'm shocked.
I'm replacing all my lights with LED because they have no detectable flicker, use almost no energy, are projected to last longer than I am and provide easily enough light to do the job.
I use a single unit in the this bedroom and a lower power one in each bathroom.
The living room has three but we rarely use more than one. No point as it gets too bright.
Which one we use depends on what were're doing.
The one nearest the windows when we're sitting on the sofa reading or watching TV.
The middle one if we're on the bean bags, reading or using a laptop.
The last is hardly ever on. I don't know why I bothered putting one in it.

I'll be building a house again sometime in the next few years. That'll be designed with all 12V LED lighting and a wind/solar/water based power source (depending on factors at the time) with battery.
Even having a shower will charge the battery as there will be a generator on the mains water input.
beauty is, it's all commercially available now with nothing needing to be designed to do the job.
Most is auto/caravan stuff so easy to get hold of.

 

Just make sure you have back-up so you do not run your batteries flat - that appreciably lowers the life of the battery. But you are right about the only thing you cannot run off of 12 volt is an air conditioner but if you have the right house design you do not really need the air con

 

Many people talk about comparing LED bulbs to incandescent bulbs, but what about combining them?

I have been doing some experimenting, and the best quality of light I have found so far is to combine both a halogen bulb and a cool white LED bulb behind the same light fixture. The light from this combination is better than even Reveal bulbs, in my opinion. It may look a little strange in the fixture, with two colors of light vissible, but the combination seems to put out an excellent quality of light in illuminating the room. This makes sense when you consider the spectrums from the two light sources. The halogen (being a type of incandescent) has plenty of deep red frequency light that the LED lacks. The halogen bulb also helps compensate for the deficit of cyan frequency (between the yellow-green and blue peak) light from the LED. If you look at the spectrum for halogen light, there is much more cyan frequency light than blue, because the intensity really begins falling off right around this point. So the result is a relatively full-spectrum combined light source. The LED helps push the spectrum of the halogen more towards the blueish end.

But as for just using an LED bulb by itself, I have tried all 3 different “color temperatures” and am just not satisfied with any of them. The "2700K warm white" LED has an eery purplish-orange tint to it, and it also makes the colors in my room seem greyish and off. The "3000K bright white" LED is better, but seems annoyingly pinkish, and it still feels like the light is "lacking" something, and it seems a little "harsh". The "4900K cool white / daylight" LED paradoxically seems the least harsh of the 3 to my eyes, but it is just too blueish and makes the colors in my room really dull and greyish.

 

Looking for an LED floodlight to replace all the 90 watt halogens in my kitchen that also put out 1300 lumens but have the same warm color. So far the LED floodlights I've used give the area a whitish glow rather than a soft glow.

 

A 100 Watt equivalent LED bulb is finally available (that can actually fit into a normal lamp). It uses 20 Watts of power. It is being retailed at Lowe's Hardware for 50 USD each. Although I am very much against the phase out legislation, this LED bulb just seems like really cool new technology. I have not tested it yet, but this bulb only comes in the "2700K" version and it is the same phosphor LED technology, so I strongly suspect it is going to put out the same eery off purplish-orange light like the other "2700K" LED bulb I already own.



Up until now, buying LED bulbs have not really been worthwhile because the only bulbs in my house that get left on all the time are the 100 Watt bulbs in the main rooms. Because of the much higher initial price, an LED bulb is not really going to pay for itself unless it is put somewhere were the lights get left on all the time. Of course, LED bulbs also will be convenient for houses that have difficult to access light fixtures that are really high up on tall ceillings or second floor roofs.

I might buy this bulb when summer comes. Right now it is winter and I have the heat on during the evenings. It does not really make much financial sense to use "energy efficient" lighting when you are cold. I often use a little portable electric heater for warmth so I do not have to turn on the main heater when the whole house does not need to be heated. It would just make absolutely no sense to avoid using my old incandescent bulb when I have an electric heater on in my room at the same time.

For people that live in hoter climates, these LED bulbs can still make financial sense, even despite the high initial price. In some situations, it might make sense for some people to switch out their light bulbs depending on the season. LEDs for warm summer nights and incandescent bulbs for the winter months. Some people (like me) may be less than satisfied at the quality of light from these new LED bulbs. They are not very good for displaying artwork or situations where perception of color is important. Whether LED bulbs that have a better quality of light will be available in the future remains to be seen.

Another factor I am not sure of is whether these 20 Watt LEDs can be put into enclosed fixtures. This 20 Watt LED will give off more heat than the other LEDs so far (although still several times less than incandescent bulbs) and LEDs are very sensitive to overheating (that is why they have such big cooling fins). If a 20 Watt LED is put into an enclosed fixture it might greatly reduce the lifetime of the LED, and that could negate any financial benefit of buying them in the first place, and possibly cancel out any environmental benefit (since the production of the aluminum used in the cooling fins takes up so much energy). This has already been a problem with CFLs. Since LED bulbs are not really in widespread use yet, and since their rated lifetimes are so long, it remains to be seen how putting them into enclosed fixtures or recessed lighting will affect their actual lifetimes.

 

The switch to LED bulbs, because of the very high initial price of these lights, is probably going to result in more thefts.

http://www.kwtx.com/ourtown/communi...ake_Light_Bulbs_Window_Screens_142992655.html

http://www.circleofmoms.com/debating-mums/stealing-from-hotels-621623

I also found this:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071021162213AA0VhF2

This light bulb phase out is going to have many unintended consequences...

 

My house lights are almost all LED now.
My table lamp to light my computer keyboard is LED but not on at the moment as the room LED light is on.
My night lights are LED and even my projector is LED, I use that instead of a large screen TV and it gives me a better as well as larger picture.

My electricity bill is bugger all.

 

Do you live in a warm climate or a cold climate? Does it get cold in the nights?
How much is your heating bill ?

 

A little update: That 100 watt equivalent LED replacement bulb is no longer available, for some reason. Lowe's Home Improvement has stopped carrying it on their site, and I am told they no longer appear to be carrying it in their stores (although it did appear on store shelves for a brief period of time). So for right now, there does not appear to be any 100 watt equivalent replacement bulbs actually commercially available, besides directional floodlights. There were a few private sellers on ebay though, but the cheapest wanted 60 USD + shipping. And one really has to ask themselves how environmentally friendly these bulbs actually are when you factor in the additional energy it takes to have them shipped individually.

Ikea stopped carrying incandescent bulbs, but their LED options are really pathetic.
Ever since they got rid of their halogen spotlights inside their showrooms, I just get a headache and really strained eyes everytime I have gone, so I stopped going.

 

[video=youtube;yk7cEdiaNSE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk7cEdiaNSE[/video]

some quick corrections to details they got wrong in the video:
(1) The LED bulbs do come in "warm white" color, not just bluish, but the light is still a little "off", just like if you have ever seen the yellowish LED Christmas lights.
(2) Regular incandescent bulbs actually last between 750-1500 hours.
(3) The 100 watt equivalent LED bulbs are actually being sold now, and they do indeed cost 50 dollars each (you will probably also have to additionally pay the cost of shipping since they are still not available in most stores)

 

My LED bulbs make a slight buzzing noise, at least the higher powered ones designed to replace a 100 watt light bulb.
It is very soft, but I can still hear it. When the room is all quiet and I am sitting close to the lamp, it can get a little annoying.

except they have an annoying slightly pinkish orange tint, and are not very flattering for skin tones.
I still think incandescent is easier on the eyes.

 

Here a relatively non-partisan opinion piece about the current state of LED consumer lighting:
http://stephenblackmandesign.wordpress.com/recent-articles/89-2/