Mandela: A Passing legacy

Discussion in 'Africa' started by Pro-Consul, Jun 29, 2013.

  1. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    I should clarify. My point about necessity related to the alleged superiority of whites to produce technology.

    But to Zimbabwe. Agreed, the corrupt Mugabe and his enablers in the military and other sectors of Zimbabwe's society are a total disgrace.

    Haiti - it's had a cursed history. Again it was controlled by a dictatorship for many years, under Papa Doc Duvalier and his feared Tonton Macoute after having had a tumultuous history. Now, do you think that's because they're non-whites?

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    I didn't ask about Mandela giving a comment or speech or singing. I asked if you are implying that Mandela caused the events you mentioned.
     
  2. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    It seems as if the ANC is following the rule-book as written by Orwell in "Animal Farm". Zuma is building himself a retirement town (so big you could hardly call it a house) while people are living in squalor in his country.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-06-...uma-30-million-dollar-retirement-home/4772594
     
  3. Pro-Consul

    Pro-Consul Banned

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    Immigration and disease amongst sparsely populated lands. Although having lived in NZ I can tell you that the Maori before and during settlement were very divided amongst one another. It's a similar story for the other countries.
     
  4. Pro-Consul

    Pro-Consul Banned

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    Well it's worrying and reassuring that corruption in human society is universal. Zuma seems to be like the Berlusconi of Africa.
     
  5. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad you brought up Sharpeville. I remember the news reports at the time. It took a long time but Sharpeville was the beginning of the end for apartheid. I would agree it wasn't state-sanctioned, the idea that some police panicked and started shooting makes sense. But there is also the question of the internal security agencies and how they operated. I also think the police felt able to beat the (*)(*)(*)(*) out of anyone they felt like, as an arm of the apartheid state.

    It's a difficult call but I do believe violence was necessary to overthrow apartheid. It wasn't the only tactic of course, but it was necessary given the ruthlessness of the regime which I think saw itself as being at war with the ANC and other resistance groups.

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    I think he's worse. Don't know if Silvio raided the treasury for his personal gain but it's looking that way for Zuma.
     
  6. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    Lenin? Communists? German bankers? Mao? Can we stay on topic here?

    Mandela was only one among many in the ANC. While he was very important in the struggle for democracy in South Africa he wasn't alone. It was a movement and the movement was more than the ANC itself. I know some Communists were involved, Joe Slovo comes to mind immediately. But so what? Oh and Joe was a Jew as well, I suppose that's another black mark.
     
  7. Pro-Consul

    Pro-Consul Banned

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    That we know of. There's no telling what that guy gets up to.


    I think that's the real problem with government agencies etc. Is that they suffer from their own culture which can be easily overlooked by central government.

    But I do agree with you that it was the tipping point which should of been avoided.
    Difficult call. Yes absolutely but I'm still on the fence when it comes to violence against a discriminatory regime. Although if it was as discriminatory as say that business with the Hutu in Rwanda then I would have no qualms about taking up arms.
     
  8. wist43

    wist43 Banned

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    The point is, Mandela was not some lone voice of reason and justice, singing truth to power from the wilderness.

    He ascended to power b/c he served a purpose to the western Establishment - whose track record of assisting communists, and communism goes back to Lenin, and before. In terms of history - 100 years ago was yesterday. What happened then set the table for what is happening today.

    It is useful to point out how communism came to prominance b/c it was the western, monied elite that funded and promoted it - just as they do today. It is more difficult to pin the actors down today however, b/c the lines have been so blurred that a democrat that is actually a communist, or an environmentalist that is actually a communist, et al are nearly impossible to discern from those around them.

    Also making it more difficult to expose these monsters for who they really are, is the cover provided by an accomplice media, and the fact that most of the institutions in western society have been infiltrated and taken over by the radical left. The only stories one would ever see about Mandela were sloppy kiss pieces.

    Beyond that, the money trail is more difficult to track these days b/c so much of it is funnelled thru foreign aide, or laundered thru corporations and foundations, et al. There's so much gorilla dust in the air, that it provides good cover for who is who, and what they are doing.

    Mandela was just another body in the long line of leftist opportunists who served the purposes of the international bankers - he was no different than Woodrow Wilson, Vlad Lenin, Dwight Eisenhower, George Bush, or Barack Obama... all of those dispicable actors owed their positions to the Establishment.

    It is absolutely relevant and proper to make those connections. How can the unsuspecting begin to understand what is being done to them if they don't know about the backgrounds of the actors working against them, where they came from, who is backing them, and what their agenda is??
     
  9. Pro-Consul

    Pro-Consul Banned

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    Quick question. What exactly is wrong with communism? I'm not talking about the USSR but Karl Marx who actually had the idea in the first place.
     
  10. Albert Di Salvo

    Albert Di Salvo New Member

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    Are you talking about the Kingdom of Kush which conquered the Egyptians for awhile? They were black Nubians who ruled the Semites of Egypt for one dynasty before they were expelled.
     
  11. STRANGEVISITOR72

    STRANGEVISITOR72 New Member

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    Yes I am. But me citing them had nothing to do with their conquest over Egypt. Besides Kush is older than Egypt. My assertion is that Egypt was originally a Black/Negro/African kingdom. It was invaded by Easterners/Middle Easterners/Asians/Europeans, and history records these invasions. The AEgyptians (ancient) tell us they originate from the African Interior not the East which is Asia nor the North which is Europe.

    http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl/noframes/read/812

    Check the fourth paragraph
    http://archive.worldhistoria.com/sumeria-older-than-ancient-egypt_topic26486.html
     
  12. Albert Di Salvo

    Albert Di Salvo New Member

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    The age of the Nubian Kingdoms is irrelevant. The Nubians came to Egypt as conquerors. Then they tried to jump ugly with the Assyrians. The Assyrians kicked Kushan ass, and conquered all of Egypt. That brought the Kushan dynasty to an end.

    I refuse to accept an unsupported statement on a forum you linked me to as being probative. Give me evidence I will accept. That means a recognized academic study.
     
  13. STRANGEVISITOR72

    STRANGEVISITOR72 New Member

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    You have a GDAY!!!
     
  14. wist43

    wist43 Banned

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    Theoretically it should work beautifully - only problem is it ignores human nature, and assumes people won't act in their best interests; but, rather will work for the common good with equal zeal to how they would work in their own self interest. In practice it never works - at least in terms of providing the citizenry with a system that provides for not only their needs, but their wants.

    A simple example would be the Soviet Union collectivizing the farms. Farmers were forced to work the land, but were given a small parcel for their own use... whether the collective land produced bountifully or not didn't matter, as there was no profit or self-interest involved in working that land - on the other hand, their personal parcel was always well maintained and produced for the farmer as much as he could extract from the soil.

    The collective land predictably underproduced, and en masse created shortages; shortages led to rationing; which only served to increase the suffering of the masses, while also increasing the political power of the ruling party - who of course never wanted for anything, as they had the power to simply take what they wanted.

    And so it plays out in every industry and walk of life for a communist state, and the hapless citizens that are enslaved in that system.

    As a control system for those who rule over the society, it is a wonderful system for gaining political power, keeping political power, and wielding political power to suppress the masses and enrich themselves - in that regard it is a wonderful system.
     
  15. Pro-Consul

    Pro-Consul Banned

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    I agree. It is a fine idea but like you said doesn't take into account human nature.

    I don't think you can say that every communist country has had food shortages though. I mean Cubans don't seem to be starving and Vietnam is one the leading economies.

    I think the problem with Communism may actually because of the imperfect science of economics. After all you can't radically rethink the natural state of mans activity without a full and thorough account of what everybody does.

    I don't think it's absolute. I mean Khrushchev got the heave ho for his incompetence.
     
  16. ThirdTerm

    ThirdTerm Well-Known Member

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    [video=youtube;LSrl32IYncs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSrl32IYncs[/video]

    Nelson Mandela was made an icon of the anti-apartheid movement and his finest moment came when he met Prince Charles and the Spice Girls. But Britain had not exerted enough diplomatic pressure on South Africa to end racial oppression because it was suspected that the ANC had Communist ties and it could be used as an instrument of a Communist takeover of South Africa and apartheid in South Africa had been condoned until the end of the Cold War just to contain the spread of Communism in the African continent. Life was much better in British-controlled South Africa before 1948 where racial segregation was loosely imposed and some qualified minorities had the right to vote.
     
  17. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    Mandela was part of a bigger movement. That movement itself was composed of various groups with various strategies and tactics but essentially the same objective - to get rid of apatheid and minority non-democratic government and replace that with a democratic government and universal suffrage and without an authoritarian racist system of apartheid.
     
  18. wist43

    wist43 Banned

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    Yes, communist altruism is well known to all. Spreading peace, love, and understanding - if only we could get rid of those greedy capitalists, with their murky motives ;)
     
  19. Albert Di Salvo

    Albert Di Salvo New Member

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    I'm going to have a better day than the losers dependent on Uncle Sam.
     
  20. klipkap

    klipkap Well-Known Member

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    Rarely in a single thread have I seen so much unadulterated drivel, pure bias, cherry-picking, false-logic, historical distortion and un-camouflaged ignorance. The basic massive flaw of most of the above is to presume that Mandela was, or even wanted to be, the supreme leader in charge of all, and therefore responsible for all of the many ills that have befallen South Africa since universal franchise in 1994. The second almost equally gross generalisation is that his policy was terrorism from the get-go.

    Regarding the first point, ask yourself the following: Did Mandela want that first presidency? When he accepted it what was his stated prime goal? Who actually ran the country (I agree, it was Mandela’s fault to give Mbeki such a long leash, just as it was Dubya’s fault to give Cheyney the same)? What were the gross circumventions of justice perpetrated by Mandela in his presidency term? What were the gross misuses of power or resorting to corruption that Mandela exercised during his presidency? Why did he divorce Winnie?

    Regarding the second point, what was he organising in the early 1950s? What did his unsuccessful demonstration to prevent the demolition of Sophiatown lead to? How successful were his arrests before 1960? Why? What was the 1961 trial verdict? What were the charges when Mandela was again arrested in 1962?

    If you can answer those questions and still believe that Mandela was a communist thug, then you are entitled to your opinion. If not .... do the math

    ... (to be continued) ...
     
  21. klipkap

    klipkap Well-Known Member

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    …. (continued) ….

    To all the communist-haters out there …. Some food for thought

    Why is your house so full of communist manufactured equipment and parts? Why is the stock in the US’s biggest chain store 75% communist made?

    Why is your computer full of parts built by communists - IBM keyboard; Microsoft mouse, Linksys router, Asus motherboard, etc. Yikes, where is your iPhone, iPad, and Mac Book made? Where were your DVD player, your Olympus digital camera, your “Israeli” lightweight combat boots, your Nike shoes, your Nikon binoculars, and the pumps in your washing machine and dish washer ? Ray-bans? Leica cameras? Where are the iconic red Radio Flyer wagons for children made? On no, not the kids also!!

    Where is the holding company of IBM based? Of Volvo? Of AMC theatres?

    Where are 95% of the USA flags sold in the US made? In which country were the clothes made worn by the US athletes at the 2012 Olympics? Where are the 4th of July fireworks made?

    Do you know which country imports almost 50% of its manufactured goods from communist countries?
     
  22. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    Madeba gettin' better...
    :cool:
    Daughter: Mandela's Health Improving Daily
    August 10, 2013 — Former South African President Nelson Mandela's health is improving daily and he is now able to sit up for minutes at a time, his youngest daughter told state broadcaster SABC.
     
  23. STRANGEVISITOR72

    STRANGEVISITOR72 New Member

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    No genius Negroes headed north and mated with Neanderthals and Denisovans and created Caucasoids and Mongoloids.
     
    klipkap and (deleted member) like this.
  24. klipkap

    klipkap Well-Known Member

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    Well said. Facts will always beat blind bigotry.

    But it does raise an (off-topic) question. Why do black countries have such difficulty in governing themselves effectively?
     
  25. STRANGEVISITOR72

    STRANGEVISITOR72 New Member

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    Interesting question. I believe it's because no matter where the Negro finds himself on this planet he doesn't control the Nine Areas of People Activity. Those remain under the control and auspices of Europeans and or systems created by them. For instance, how many African governments are in control of their oil, gold or diamond mines??? Don't get me wrong most African governments should be able to govern effectively with the little autonomy that Europeans provide, yet they fall into the trappings of Eurocentric thinking.
    We (Blacks) must re-evaluate our understanding of the world in which we operate. Find the good in traditional African values & concepts but discard the bad ones of the western world. Just some thoughts.
     

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