MH-17: Downed by Elite Collusion

This is the best and most measured analysis of the tragic downing of the flight over Ukraine available anywhere. Craig Murray's blog piece is an absolute must-read:

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/07/mh17-downed-by-elite-collusion/

 

Good read.

 

Excellent, thanks for the link.

 

Too much words but no evidense ... It seems to me , Westerns , that it does not matter for you who is really responsible for the plane , because it is in your traditions that Russia is always guilty ! Provocations was done for blaming Russia but not to investigate it .

 

a simple opinion article ... proves nothing .. not based on physical evidence ... just his opinion ... something like biased .. nothing more.

 

Good piece, thanks.

 

A pro-Russian separatist fighting in eastern Ukraine has admitted rebel forces shot down Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, it has been claimed.

The militant, who has not been identified, reportedly said fighters blasted the Boeing 777 out of the sky - killing all 298 people on board - after mistaking it for a Ukrainian government cargo plane.

He said the rebels only realised their mistake when they began searching the crash site for the parachutes of military crew who may have bailed out the aircraft, only to find the bodies of children.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-mistake-came-bodies-children-not-military-

 

Good article Trout. The Guardian had a complimentary article to this a few days ago

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/20/punishing-russia-mh17-tragedy-help-ukraine

Things this situation offers the possibility to be brought out in the open and redressed. I know I heard on the news last night Conservatives being confronted about all the money they receive from Russian Oligarchs.

With sanctions and particularly with Germany we also need to be aware of how hard they would hit citizens. Merkel also needs to think about that because I suspect possibly more than most she may know the multiplicity of dangers we currently face.

 

Of course it doesn't prove the rebels did it. But it nevertheless seems the most likely scenario. In any case, the article's brilliance is the way it touches on wider issues and when when read in full is a blinder - a perfect antidote to the idea that some seem to have on here that Putin and Russia are beyond critical reproach.

 

Yes, Cameron's back-hand is not as good as Boris's sophistry when cornered. As for Merkel, I couldn't agree more.

 

I'm not a partisan. I detest imperialism, both U.S imperialism and it's Russian counterpart. I will not whitewash Russia of it's own version of the war of terror in places like Dagestan and Chechnya. In terms of the downing of the aircraft, my view is that it was likely to have been the actions of the rebels acting autonomously from any Russian influence. It's not as though its the first plane to have been downed in the region.

 

I prefer to form my opinion based on reports on the flight recorders, autopsies, and analysis of the wreckage.

regards

 

I agree. It's time to let the evidence speak.

In keeping with the theme of the OP, however, which is just opinion, I prefer this Craig.

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/19/happened-malaysian-airliner-paul-craig-roberts/

 

Like you well said It is also a personal opinion... and as a personal opinion not based on facts, I am also more in line with the Mr Craig Roberts´opinion ... but ...I don´t hold it unless there is real evidence.

Regards

 

He mixes truth and lies. Ukrainian missile launched from the aircraft was hit by a Boeing 777. Nobody saw the launch of a rocket from the ground BUK. This gives the missile track, which can be seen 40 miles and 15 minutes, you can shoot video.

 

Uhhh! I have news for you, the only transport planes that takes that route are the Russian ones heading to their air force base. For heaven's sake hasn't Kerry, Poroshenko and our 'controlled' news media been caught in enough lies, how can anyone believe anything they say? But then again, you might have your own political agenda, which in that case makes truth immaterial.

 

My threads disappear ...

 

The Ukrainian jets have been downed continuously, but they were bombing cities and flying low and were taken down by Manpads. This passenger plane was quite high and could only have been downed by a Buk. Also the route the passenger plane was taking goes to the Russian air base and it's taken by Russian cargo planes, so the idea that the freedom fighting federalists mistook the plane for a Ukrainian one is preposterous. What is not preposterous is that the jet was there to give credence to a false flag event, by saying they were aiming for the jet. At that height though, it's doubtful anyone could have spotted the jet, so that hypothesis is out.

What is not out, is that the Ukrainian soldiers manning the one active Buk that was brought into the area and then taken out after the shooting, (as shown by the photos), might have been told by the jet pilot that it was Putin's plane, since the coloring and the size are the same. Anyway the Kiev government had all the motives for shooting it, since their troops were surrounded and they needed outside help in basically the same way the Syrian jihadists needed outside help when they were being defeated by Assad, and so they gassed their own people to get us to bomb Damascus.

Kerry lied then to the American people, and he's lying now big time together with the media, to cover up what to me and to any objective observer is a smoking gun. Besides being the only one having a motive, Kiev is the only one who had the means to shoot it down.

 

Which threads? If it wasn't the moderators, then maybe you should tell them? The best thing is not to make threads then, but to post whatever you feel is important on other threads it's safer that way...unless it's the CIA and there are certain key words that makes them wipe things out. One never knows...

P.S. I just noticed in one of my posts I answered no one. The quote was wiped out, probably by mistake. Someone is fooling around here.

 

The mechanisms of this vary. In my view, the largest number are people who are not psychologically equipped to fight over-mighty power everywhere, which is a lonely path, and prefer the much easier option of joining the entourage of a big power, and convincing themselves that power is good. It is comforting to feel part of a powerful team.

I like it. Also, not to derail the thread or anything, but this seems to apply to bipartisanship in the USA: People have to support one major party or the other in order to have any sense of power over what is happening in the world, and they do as he describes here in the process - namely treat their party of choice as being in the right while the other is in the wrong, and of course disregard all others as unimportant and not mainstream.

Human psychology, eh.

 

This is another blah-blah-blah without new evidence at all. A good talk for a Champaign party, one opinion versus another one. I do not see any imperialism in Putin's politics. Abkhazia, Crimea or Ukraine - all peoples wanted to be rather with Russia. If this is people's will, there is no imperialism.

 

I also find it blah, blah, blah since he attributes the shooting down of the plane to the federalist fighters when there is no reason or rhyme to the how or why they would shoot it down? The Kiev government were the only ones who had the motive and the means to shoot it down, not to mention the proofs which have been handed over by the Russian government, as well as the non existent proofs that the U.S. refuses to hand over...like for instance, the photos from the satellite overhead.

But this is the typical politicking of the people in this administration, where righteousness is of no value, and where hypocritical persuasion reigns. In my day and age we called them sociopaths.

 

It's scary how convenient this all was for Israel. Those teens get kidnapped and killed, Israel dithers for awhile, MH17 gets shot down and then Israel engages in what may be their biggest crackdown on Gaza ever.

 

well, not quite so, the author seems not understanding that today's Russia simply cannot be 'a much more unequal society than the West' because the USSR has made everyone equal in Russia by eliminating social classes as such, anyone can be anything in Russia these days, there's no ethical or aesthetical or societal barriers between for example a billionare and a tramp here.

before writing on Russia you have to have lived here for a while at least, this is what Western authors won't understand.

 

Russia has an even bigger divide between the rich and poor.