~ MOD ALERT ~ Why is Pro-Life seen as Anti-Woman?

I disagree with you. I have read some statistics (posted by anders) which indicate otherwise.

 

It's all appeal to emotion. It's propaganda designed to make themselves look like the good guys. Because they know that if they acknowledge what they are actually doing - killing a child - then their whole argument falls apart. They can't be the good guys if they're arguing for murder. It doesn't work. So they have to accuse the people who want to protect innocent life of denying them choice. They have to make themselves look like victims by robbing the child of the legitimate victimhood status in the scenario and selfishly assigning it to themselves instead.

The denial these people live in is thick. They're not even interested in exploring the subject honestly. They just cling to the narrative that they are the victims. So they can preserve what they do no matter who they hurt in the process. As with many other liberal causes, you'll notice that pro-abortionists won't acknowledge anti-abortion women. They'll rationalize them as "not counting." As somehow being inauthentic. Clearly if a woman doesn't support abortion, then she must not really be a woman. It's the same card liberal feminists play against conservative women. And it's the same card liberal afrocentrics play against black conservatives. "If you don't fit the narrative, you don't count." That way they can continue to claim that if you oppose X, then you clearly hate Y. Evidence be damned.

 

What makes you think his stats were more reliable?

You must have some reason...?

 

Hmm. What makes you think his stats were NOT reliable?

 

Because the evidence is overwhelming that criminalizing abortion doesn't affect the rate. Latin American and African countries with highly restrictive abortion laws have a much higher rate than the US. How do you explain that?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/12/world/12abortion.html?_r=1&ref=world&oref=slogin

 

Even if those statistics are true, abortion should still be illegal, to send the correct moral message.

 

Here's your moral message: "Let's pass laws resulting in more deaths, because we are pro-life, and women who have different beliefs should be punished and die."

 

Every law is based upon some form of moral beliefs. I don't see what your point is.

 

You are actually going to pretend to believe that a law resulting in more deaths is "morally correct"? Really?

 

Not that I give a damn about the moral aspects.

To answer your question with a dose of extreme reality....

YES!

If it results in more dead baby killers....

Then yes.

Why wouldn't that be more moral than letting the baby killing go unabated?

 

Does anyone else see the irony in the fact that the title of this thread is: Why is Pro-Life seen as Anti-Woman?

 

I think Sam answered that point very well - when he said...

 

Maybe we should have a thread titled "Why is Pro-Choice seen as Anti-Baby?"

 

It would be a very short thread,



Because some people do not understand what a "Baby" is.

 

Would you call a man a slut, or trash based on their sexual habits .. a slut is female, not male;

slut - a woman who has many casual sexual partners.

trash - a person or people regarded as being of very low social standing

given that as many high social standing people get abortions as those with low social standing, your trash comment is pointed at the wrong people.

 

It would reduce abortion rates, actually.

 

Bookmarking. You want abortion criminalized because it results in more dead women.

It has been established already that criminalizing abortion doesn't affect the abortion rate. Abortion ends a pregnancy before a baby exists.

 

Ignoring the evidence won't make it go away.

 

and is the "pro-life" campaign any different, they focus on the fetal side and degrade the female using such language as "it's her own fault", "she opened her legs", "sluts", "Why should I care if a woman dies in an illegal abortion, they are the ones committing a crime"

I have, on numerous occasions, admitted that abortion results in the death of the zef, doesn't make my arguments fall apart, neither does the death of the zef make it any more relevant, and as yet you nor any other pro-lifer has been able to come up with a conclusive enough argument that it is murder, and even if you could that still doesn't mean abortion should be illegal .. "murder" is justified every single day for various reasons, you just don't like the thought that abortion is one of them.

no where near as thick as the religious bubble the majority of pro-lifers live in .. honestly, whose honestly, yours, that is laughable coming from a group who regularly use false pictures and edited video's as the "truth" and even when they are shown to be false still insist they are not, or how about when figures are posted from world respected organisations showing that what pro-choicers say is in fact correct, pro-lifers dismiss them as biased while posting items from sites that are blatantly pro-life.

I certainly acknowledge pro-life women, I feel they are a little misguided, but I certainly don't ignore them and I find their input into discussion as valid as any one elses .. when removed from the religious asspect. So please before you start waving your very broad brush around perhaps you would be advised to actually direct it to the people who it fits.

 

go for it, it will be interesting to see the pro-life comments.

- - - Updated - - -

and of course everyone should adhere to what you and Sam think of as irresponsible and convenience related

 

Pro-life merely means that the person doesn't personally believe in abortion so there isn't a fundamental difference in that regard. The difference is between Pro-Life/Pro-Choice and Pro-Life/Anti-Abortioon.

The difference is that a person that is Pro-Life/Anti-Abortion advocates laws that prohibit abortions. A person that is Pro-Life/Pro-Choice doesn't believe that the government should be involved in the choices of a woman based upon the opinions of others. The "Pro-Choice" person supports the Rights of the Woman that shouldn't be subjected to the personal opinions of others. They believe it's woman's decision and woman's decision alone when it comes to abortion and the government should not dictate that decision. Anti-Abortionists oppose the Rights of the Woman based upon their personal opinions.

Some Anti-abortionists (about 7%) are so extreme as to literally condemn a woman to death by prohibiting any abortions when an abortion could save her life.

 

While of course you and other "pro-lifers" only use cool, unemotional logic with no consideration of trying to make yourselves look "more righteous than them evil lib'ruls".......right?

 

Are they the same level of human life ONE SECOND after the sperm contacts the egg?

 

Actually, Anders posted some stats in this thread, http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=322342, which prove that banning abortions reduces the rate of abortions. I support banning abortions as part of the way to reduce abortion rates. And I'm not against sex ed or more contraception, that also works too (to help reduce abortion rates).

Why would you, a pro-choicer, expect me, who's pro-life, to make laws which promote immoral behaviors (making abortion illegal discourages women from having abortions, because it makes abortions way more dangerous)?

 

Those figures Anders posted do not show anything at all about restriction reducing abortion, you have to remember that prior to restrictions being lifted there were no official figures on abortion, the only way to see the effect that lifting restriction has on abortion is to look at the maternal mortality rates .. figures that I posted in that same thread, the increase you see in the graph posted by Anders is no different from a graph showing the increase in alcohol after prohibition ended, do you really think that while prohibition was in force that alcohol wasn't drunk or sold simply because the graph shows there was less

Actually it doesn't and all the research and figures prove that .. it is a misconception that liberal abortion laws promote immorality as can be seen in countries such as Canada where abortion has no restrictions what so ever and yet their overall abortion rate is lower, by around 2%, than the USA which has restrictive abortion laws.

In my opinion what is required is not legislation against abortion but to stop the attacks on comprehensive sex education and contraception by religiously motivated conservatives it is they that fuel the high levels of abortion by their restrictive policies aimed at keeping people in the dark about sex and contraception, remove that and I firmly believe that abortion rates across the world, not just in the USA, will decline especially if money is given to research in search of a contraceptive that is 100% effective - like the one I posted about in another thread, one that it was very noticeable that pro-lifers were against.