More lies about Israel and hospitals

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by RWKindaguy, Nov 21, 2023.

  1. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    What a :censored:ass you are. Look at the video supplied, in which the info comes straight from a former Israeli Prime Minister. But, in a way you're right-- because anyone who takes the word of the current Prime Minister (that's Netanyahu, btw), will believe nearly anything.

    Why don't you tell us some more facts, which you know from doing absolutely no research?
     
  2. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    LOL, at the absurdity of the claim. Hey, @fmw , do you now believe this crap?
     
  3. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    Did you miss Israeli President Herzog, saying that there are no Palestinian "civilians?"


    B.S. The civilians are not doing the fighting. There are an estimated 30 to 40 thousand Hamas fighters, out of a population of 2.2 million.

    And how is someone in Intensive Care, supposed to "run away?" Or a newborn, in the neonatal unit? Or someone old & disabled? And they would need, literally, escape by foot, because Israel cut off fuel deliveries.

    Oh, and where T.F. are they supposed to run to? The refugee camps in the south, all lack the basics, like proper sanitation, and sufficient water. Not to mention, that the IDF is now attacking those, as well.




     
  4. georgephillip

    georgephillip Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Perhaps Hamas felt instigating Nakba 2.0 was its last resort to prevent normalization of relations between Israel and major Arab states like Saudi Arabia.

    I'm pretty sure few of us currently debating Israel/Palestine would be paying much attention to the conflict without the violence of October 7th?
     
  5. Gilos

    Gilos Well-Known Member

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    Show me this misquote






    Many "civilians" participated on Oct 7th and for 3 days ravaged our land and ppl, since you hold Israeli civilians as either reserved soldiers or occupiers I'm not moved by your "morals" here....
    They had a month to take their belongings and funking move south, they had days more when IDF closed in and gave them time to leave.
    And the sick didn't go on foot there were ambulances carrying them away to Egypt. I know it wasn't fun, we dont enjoy that either but their Hospitals are also army bases, so ****ing move or fight.

    Where to? away from the Tanks...move ****ing south.
    Their convenience is on a very low priority right now. we are doing what they could or would not - destroying Hamas.
     
  6. Gilos

    Gilos Well-Known Member

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    Once again, they had 3 weeks to move, those who stayed are not taking Israel seriously.....and thats a bad start for peace......which is coming
     
  7. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    LOL-- the proof came out of the mouth of a former Israeli Prime Minister. So who T.F. cares, what site it appears on? Oh, is that your criterion for your idea of "truth" about the conflict: it has to be on a virulently pro-Israeli site? Then, that makes your obviously biased opinion, a worthless waste of time, to listen to.
     
  8. Gilos

    Gilos Well-Known Member

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    There is one constant with all the pro palestinians, the palestinian actions are always missing, its like we argue what Israel does to some object.
    The PLO in the WB is one thing
    Islamic Jihad is another
    Hamas is also something else - the Jihad groups, ALL OVER THE WORLD, be it Africa or Europe or Asia - all live in protest against the western system, they dont trade with it, they refuse to negotiate and they have a crazy global plan of spreading Islam - it doesnt matter how crazy and unreal it is, THEY belive in it.
    Hamas chose to live in protest, they could have made a deal with Israel regarding their Harbor and Airport and Industrial zones, use Qatar money and live normally, they CHOSE protest and terrorism.
    Once Hamas is removed the Gazans will have a second chance
     
  9. Gilos

    Gilos Well-Known Member

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    I dont know what maps you are talking about,

    But to be honest Im not in a place I can talk about peace and 2 state solution right now, we are at war and the WB is not "helping", maybe in the future.
     
  10. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Hamas acted within the context of a developing environment that sought to a) consign the fate of the Palestinians to Greater Israeli designs spearheaded by Jewish settlers and extreme right wing forces in the US and Israel; b) project the image that the axis of resistance to Israel is totally sidelined and on the brinks of defeat (attempts to economically and politically strangulate Hezbollah, Iran, et al, the so-called 'war-between wars' and Israel's so-called "octopus strategy", along with expansion of the Abraham Accords) ; and c) outrageous and delusional statements by Israeli officials directly threatening to hit Iran's "leadership" in case of Iranian backed attacks (retaliation) to Israeli acts of sabotage and terrorism . The latter the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

    While Iran was not, and for a host of reasons would not, get involved in operational details regarding Hamas' action, the broad framework and plans for a major land, sea, and air assault by Hamas were already set in motion with knowledge, support and even encouragement of Iran's Quds force. In fact, even the "official denials" about Iranian involvement are essentially overstated in western reports.
     
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  11. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    This is no more than a snide and disgusting sneer at civilians taking the brunt of war.

    There isn't now nor was there ever a safe place for people to go where they could count on safety, shelter, food and water.
     
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  12. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    <Google Snip>
    New Delhi: Israel's president Isaac Herzog claimed in a press conference that there are no innocent civilians in Gaza, while thousands of Palestinians struggled to flee northern Gaza after Israel's military told some 1.1 million of them to evacuate south ahead of an anticipated military operation.Oct 14, 2023
    https://thewire.in › world › northern...
    <End>



    <Snip #2>
    As Israel engages in a massive air campaign ahead of an anticipated full-scale ground invasion of the Gaza Strip, Israeli President Isaac Herzog said on Friday that all citizens of Gaza are responsible for the attack Hamas perpetrated in Israel last weekend that left over 1,200 people dead.

    “It is an entire nation out there that is responsible,” Herzog said at a press conference on Friday. “It is not true this rhetoric about civilians not being aware, not involved. It’s absolutely not true. They could have risen up. They could have fought against that evil regime which took over Gaza in a coup d’etat.”
    <End Snip #2>

    https://news.yahoo.com/israeli-president-says-no-innocent-154330724.html



    Here is a link to the actual footage, of Herzog speaking:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnewsv..._herzog_says_there_are_no/?xpromo_edp=enabled




    I don't know from where you draw your assumption, but I don't even know what you mean by it, first of all. Second of all, isn't that convenient, that if you do something, and don't like someone's opinion of what you did, you just ignore that opinion? Well, that certainly proves that your in the right, doesn't it?

    Actually, it would only prove that you're willing to justify anything your country does, and you don't care at all about the morality of it, if it seems appropriate to you, in your head filled with nationalistic Zionist propaganda. Gee, who would have ever guessed that, from a supporter of Israel?
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2023
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  13. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Israel has been at war against Gaza for more than TWO DECADES.

    You have NO excuse related to time.
     
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  14. Gilos

    Gilos Well-Known Member

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    I reply with the same cold I'm served, not all posters here really want to debate

    There is, about a million already moved south and many more will follow
     
  15. Gilos

    Gilos Well-Known Member

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    "
    When a reporter asked Herzog to clarify whether he meant to say that since Gazans did not remove Hamas from power “that makes them, by implication, legitimate targets,” the Israeli president claimed, “No, I didn’t say that.”

    But he then stated: “When you have a missile in your ******n kitchen and you want to shoot it at me, am I allowed to defend myself?”

    At another point in the press conference, Herzog presented a different perspective, saying, “Of course there are many, many innocent Palestinians who don’t agree to this — but unfortunately in their homes, there are missiles shooting at us, at my children.”


    It's like I said, many of them take an active part, Hamas didnt land on them from the moon, they support it and fuel it.
    Now....they have a choice to make - keep supporting it and fight or otherwise get in IDF way - or flee
     
  16. Gilos

    Gilos Well-Known Member

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    And with all palestinians for over a 100 years, so ? what's the point ?
    I think we tried everything including giving land - who opposed it in the 90's by the way? who bombed busses every week ? Hamas....

    The only thing we haven't tried we try now
     
  17. Gilos

    Gilos Well-Known Member

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    Muslims....?
     
  18. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    What absurdity: they had a month-- when? While under constant aerial bombardment? If that idea weren't so sick, it would be funny as hell. Israel did not even open any safe corridors, during that month. Some Gazans, trying to flee, were blown up, by the IDF. Israel may have just opened a couple of 3-hr windows, in which a family, with children and elderly members, were supposed to dash on foot 10 or 12 miles? And this, after weeks of being dehydrated for lack of water, which Israel shut off-- for their "self defense"-- and lack of food, and certainly sleep deprived, from being under 24/7 military jet bombardment. And, if they made it to the south, there wasn't nearly adequate facilities to house and maintain them.

    But wow, you did give them a month, as you were flattening their homes, to try to sneak past the military onslaught-- Israel deserves some kind of humanitarian award!



    You mean, like the ambulance(s) that got targeted & destroyed by the IDF? Because somehow they knew there was Hamas weaponry or some such, in there? Forgive me for wanting a little proof of Israeli intelligence, after it completely missed all the preparation of Hamas, practicing on gliders, through the air, and whatnot. Oh, but I'm sure they know every detail of what goes on, in Gaza.

    And without fuel, I don't know how an entire hospital could be evacuated. That would mean a bunch of trips, wouldn't it? How many ambulances, do you think they have?

    But the roads are not as safe as you make them out to be, according to this human rights attorney, who says that IDF has even "bomb(ed) humanitarian convoys," that had been proceeding along the route, designated by Israel-- but if Israel says they didn't do any of that stuff, that's good enough for me (not!).


    Erakat-- MSM has failed



    So you're gonna accept everything your government says, on faith, and disbelieve everything that comes from either Palestinians, or those you deem to be sympathetic toward their plight-- and is it any wonder to you, that you judge yourselves to be "in the right?"
     
  19. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    First, saying that you didn't say certain words, is not even close, to denying that is what you had meant.

    Second of all, he kind of doubled down in it, by suggesting that every home that Israel has thus far destroyed, had a rocket launcher in its kitchen...And you find that credible?

    How many hundreds of thousands of rocket launchers, do you think Hamas has?
     
  20. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Against who?

    Lets make this easy and give you multiple choice options:
    1. against anyone and everyone with basic human empathy and decency, including those broadly characterized and mischaracterized as the "left" in western societies;
    2. against basically all non-western countries, especially those sympathetic to the Palestinian cause;
    3. against basically all Muslims, but for those kicked into submission;
    4. against real Muslim jihadists with worldwide ambitions or pretensions (very small number found exclusively among Sunnis infested with Wahhabi ideology, most of them explicitly or implicitly supported in the past by the US/Israel as a lesser threat, to fight against Iran);
    5. against the Palestinians anywhere and everywhere;
    6. against the Palestinians in Gaza;
    7. against Hamas alone;
    8. against Hamas and the axis of resistance led by Iran.
    While I await your response, please tell me which of these "enemies" you have been defeating in this war?
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2023
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  21. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    The more pertinent question would be how many rockets Israel has even taken out? Hamas managed to fire more rockets into Israel (including up to the time of the truce) than it was even estimated to have.

    Israel, by and large, hasn't even been targeting or fighting Hamas, whose military capabilities are almost fully intact, save what it has lost mostly to attrition. The IDF has claimed to have killed between 1,000-2,000 Hamas fighters in Gaza. First, that appears to be a gross exaggeration. Second, even if true, it would still show the fighting hasn't been concentrated as much against Hamas as basically trying to de-populate Gaza.
     
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  22. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    @Gilos

    So, along with your President saying that all the citizens of Gaza are responsible for the Hamas attack-- he couldn't take back, that part-- we also see your Defense Minister, constantly calling Palestinians "human animals," as if to desensitize people to the massive civilian death toll, he is anticipating.* While one might have a case for calling, specifically Hamas, "animals," he does not specify that, and in fact says this, in relation to his plan to shut off the supply of all water, electricity, food, & fuel-- which will affect everyone in the city. So, with the Prez saying that everyone is responsible, and the Defense Secretary, shutting off vital utilities to everyone, it is not crystal clear that when he says they are fighting animals, he is not dehumanizing all Gaza's Palestinian population. And even you, in fact, have been saying that "many" civilians are actually combatants (despite zero evidence of this).


    *Worth noting, that the Defense Minister also says, "we will eliminate everything." Not, all of Hamas; the implication seems to be, all of Gaza.










    Gee, look at all those "Hamas fighters," in the rubble--

     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2023
  23. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    Sadly, this is what the evidence seems to suggest. I've heard a human rights lawyer say that, in this war, the IDF has killed more U.N. officials, than leaders of Hamas. And now, do I hear that Israel wants the neighboring nations to take the Palestinian refugees? Naturally they need to go elsewhere since, unfortunately, nearly all their homes have been destroyed. What a lamentable, unforeseeable pity, ay?
     
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  24. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Please remember that Israel created Hamas to fight the PLO in order promote internal carnage among the Palestinians so, as in the play, "Hamlet" they were "hoist with their own petard" on 7 October.

    I have a lot of trouble believing that 7 October's attack was a surprise to all Israelis as Zionist extremists have sacrificed Jews before for a "Greater Israel".
    For example:
    “If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel.”
    Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth’s Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).
    https://www.progressiveisrael.org/ben-gurions-notorious-quotes-their-polemical-uses-abuses/

    Another Poster compiled the following observations which I think deserve attention since Israel's Wall has the most sophisticated monitoring equipment in the world that can allegedly "detect a bug moving".

    1. The day before the Hamas attack, Israel had intelligence that an attack was looming.
    2. The Egyptians may have sent intelligence to them three days before.
    3. The day before, Israel had several high-level meetings on a possible attack by Hamas.
    4. The attack on Israel occurred on a Holy holiday, exactly 50 years to the day of the attack on Israel and war of 1973.
    5. Arabs like to attack on holidays and recurring dates and events.
    6. The decision at these meetings was to do nothing. Not to call out the IDF to man the border.
    7. Who made that decision?
    8. In 1973, Golda Meir made a similar decision not to attack first to prevent being attacked in order to stave off international criticism.
    9. Border guards in Israel who have been interviewed prior to the attack of last week stressed that they had all kinds of monitoring equipment of every type watching the Israeli border 24/7 day and night and a bug couldn't move out there without their knowing about it.
    10. After the attack, despite there being IDF everywhere in the country and military gear everywhere, help to the Israeli victims took between 8 to 20 hours to arrive. Why?
    What are your thoughts especially on # 9 and # 10?

    Thanks,
     
  25. Gilos

    Gilos Well-Known Member

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    They had nearly 20 days till IDF invaded, if you dont get the point after the first bomb - you are involved, it takes hours to get your stuff and and two hours to walk 10 Km to the south
    Thanks
    The fat Fatma's who use to dress their infants with Hamas ninja clothes and a toy bomb belts probably needed more time to leave their terrorist children down in the tunnels - but we cannot entertain them all, I hope you understand.



    You are forgiven
    As many as they could in a day or two when IDF arrived on the scene, the time line got very short.
    Well the whole objective was to get YOU to like us....you say its not working ???

    If they didn't want us there - they shouldn't have ****ing begged us to get in


    Very little of what my Gov says, till Oct 7th I demonstrated against the worst Gov in Israel history, we were at the break of civil war, truly, I wanted to see Bibi hang at the city square that ****ing lying pig facist arrogant ****er....
    BUT - your boys had to be what they are and after.....what?...a year 2 years? of quite and a lot of Qatar money - they massacred our towns!

    I don't need you or anyone else to tell me its alright to live next to ****ing barabaric animals, they cut off the breasts of one of the women they raped, I dont need your concent, your hug, your approval for anything - and if your Gov or the entire EU decided to boycot Israel - that wont save a single Hamasi I promise you.
     

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